General Chat

Recently I travelled up part of the Welsh coast by train...the 'school train' as it happened.

When my son and i got on we sat across the aisle from two young men, at first glance i thought they were Jewish Rabbis perhaps (long black garments' but then realised that they were young muslim clerics. They were subjected to the taunts , rascist, religious, sexual innuendos etc of the lovely young (13-16) school boys and girls for the whole of the journey.

The older of the two Muslims read for much of the time, trying to block it out I would say...the younger of the two (from Hull, white, ginger hair about 24) chatted to me about the area, his wife having their first baby, and how happy they both were , talked computers with my son and said how he would love to live in such a beautiful place and be a shepherd .

And tried SO hard to answer the mocking queries about terrorism, Muslim sex, etc etc from the kids...he tried his best to explain his religion ...he spoke of nothing but peace , in the face of 'attack' as it were...

It was an uncomfortable journey...so much hatred against someone who merely 'looked different'
and had a faith which obviously gave him comfort and a 'moral code.'

At one point the train stops for 15 mins and
the two men took out prayer mats and prayed to Mecca...other than that they might have been anyone on a train journey.

I certainly know who provoked, who used obscenities , who was intolerant and aggressive,
and I was very glad that my own son was shocked and disgusted at the behaviour of his 'peers'.

there lol sorry about the length of this but it has been on my mind...especially because I have just been reading the story of 1200 Jews saved from the Nazis in Beloruss WW2....:)

Rose xx

Did you let the school know about the bad behaviour of the pupils?

I hope so and then the parents can be informed.

That is such a shame Rose. It annoys me when Muslims are always portrayed in the same light by the Media.

My only experience of Muslims is a devout Muslim I know through work. He is the most gentle and peaceful man one could ever expect to meet. That is no exaggeration.

Yes, religious indoctrination and hatred of anothers faith is indeed a terrible thing. It is horrible to see it in action.

On the other hand, it is very easy to look on the internet to find photographs of two 17 year old boys being executed by being hung from cranes in Iran - very recently - for the crime of being homosexual.

http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/21/iran12072.htm

Because the same God that these men were praying to said that it must be so.

Rose that's dreadful!!

Why can't we be more tolerant of those that are "different" from us?

Its a sad world we live in but its been this way for a very long time sadly!!

Such a pity when the whole view of a race and culture is coloured by what they and their parents take from the media. Just as not all young Brits are not knife carrying thugs, so not all Muslims are terrorists. This is the damage the terrorists have done to their own kind. They tend to be stereotyped by the ignorant.

If you know which school they are likely to have come from I hope you can convey to their head the atrocious behaviour of their pupils.

It is good to hear the effect it had on your son, no doubt your tolerance reflects on him. which says a lot about the parents of those kids doesn't it?

Ann
Glos

Yeesh, Eldrick.

The Roman Catholic church is directly responsible for untold milions of deaths and orphaned children around the world because of its refusal to stop opposing measures that would prevent many of them -- distribution of condoms to prevent HIV transmission and unwanted pregnancy, legal abortion to avert the deaths of women from unsafe illegal procedures -- and the influence it is allowed to wield on the world stage in this regard.

Now, how often do you see a horde of schoolchildren on a train taunting and intimidating a couple of RC priests?

Do you seriously believe that the schoolchildren's actions were prompted by their abhorrence of the persecution of gay men in Iran?

When something like that happens, it makes me ashamed to be British.

Sadly it reminds me of the young 'Goth' girl murdered for dressing differently, what a sad society we live in.

Hopefully he realised by chatting to you, we're not all the same and some of us have no problem with race, creed or religion.

Barbara xx

I would most definitely contact the school - they should be named and shamed in front of the whole school

Ian, but if the we & the media choose to look constantly at the negative sides of people's culture/religion and we don't balance that by looking at the whole picture, surely this will only encourage negative views and possibly add to persecution of certain religions/cultures.

I would definately tell the school. That's not on xx

"Because the same God that these men were praying to said that it must be so."

No Eldrick the same God, didn't .....the people who wrote down what THEY thought God said/ would say... and the people who interpret it ...did :)

My God, their God , THE God lol...or no God at all....isn't 'God' that causes the trouble ...its his fallible creation mankind ?...

Kitty the kids were reported by many (though not the Muslims themselves), to the ticket collector , who informed the transport police and school.

xx
xx

I am pleased they were reported. wonder if they were punished though? Suppose we will never know.

Thing is I can't say it made me ashamed to be 'British' the young man WAS totally British...

Kathryn, you are misunderstanding me.

I am trying to say that the reality of life is not as simplistic as some peaceable muslims being abused by white schoolchildren.

I know only too well what the catholic church does, and what all religions do and preach.

Which is my point.

And I dont think that because there are good people in different churches who hand out soup or do whatever can be used to camouflage the fact that basically religions are intolerant of each other. That ALL 3 great Abrahamic religions commit atrocities in the name of their God. Anyone who thinks otherwise is merely blindfolding themselves.

There is NOTHING that can excuse attacking or abusing a person because of their faith.

But they all preach and teach you to do that very thing when you get into the basic elements of them.

One is as bad as the other.

A very close friend of mine from my school days got on a bus one day.... she was living in London, and was on her way to work.

She, and everyone else on that bus were minding their own business, thinking of the day ahead.

They were not taunting anyone, or belittling, or asking foul or obnoxious questions.

I will never be able to ask her what her actual thoughts were at the moment the bomb exploded and killed her.

My granddaughter has five godparents, with the blessing of the church she was christened in.... they are all close friends of son and daughter in law... one of them is Muslim, and he too is the kindest and most gentle of people. Each of the others has a different belief.. my son is Pagan! Their belief was incidental, it just happens that they are son and dil's closest friends, but the vicar (a woman) was wonderful, and welcomed this break from tradition, lol

I think we all have anecdotes on people who are either well or badly behaved, from all walks of life, all cultures and all religions... human nature is such that there will always be evil in the world.
That doesn't mean that we should accept it, we must try to root it out and address the issues that cause it.

Your son does you and himself credit, Rose. He sounds a wonderful young man.

Love

Daff xxx

oh hell Eldrick, ( oops no hell? lol)

of course most religions (maybe all) preach intolerance..but intolerance isn't itself dependant on religion/ religious teaching.....

Take away every religion and mankind will make another one...worship another 'God' ...'Money' for a start! and then the intolerance will still be there...because one of us has ginger hair, or bad eyesight...or a bigger house...etc..

LOL none of us on here have seen each other, know each others religious leanings...but there is enough intolerance just the same lol.

But I do like disagreeing with you sometimes...if only because you rarely take offence :))

well said Daff.....my gran always taught me that there are good and bad people from all walks of life.

Of course there are good and bad. I'm not talking about individual morality - its the collective morality taught by religion that I take issue with.

Muslims in theis country will not condemn acts that we see as appalling atrocities - if you can stomach it look at http://www.apostatesofislam.com/media/stoning.htm

Same as christians planted bombs that maimed and murdered hundreds of people in Ireland and the UK. Because of the were Catholics and wanted to carry out sectarian killings.

Anyone who follows any of these faiths must accept that they are following ALL of it. It is not open to picking which parts you follow and which parts you dont. It either stands or falls as a whole, surely.

Rose....are you telling me that this young man was taunted for being a muslim over the fact that he had ginger hair and was from Hull? Well, there's a first time for everything! lol