Genealogy Chat

Hi
I am endeavouring to find the parents of listed grandchildren. This is in a 1911 census.There is four children of five as she was born after the registration date for the 1911 census. Two boys as Grandsons and two girls as Granddaughters all with.the same surname Sandford, but with the grandparents family. Would it be they belong to that family as grandchildren or from possibly a brother family of the grandparent being of the same surname.
Many Thanks
Johni
:-)

Have you tried putting each name into the GRO Index to see what the mother's maiden name was???????

This is the url if you do not already have it .............

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/


Please do the above, that should answer your question, because you can then go looking for a marriage of a Sandford son (or sons), OR and unmarried daughter.


But to answer your question ..... if they are shown as GRANDCHILDREN, then they will be grandchildren.

If they were from a brother family, they would be shown as GREAT NIECE or GREAT NEPHEW.

Have you looked for their births on the GRO site where MMN is shown pre-1911?

What children did the grandparents have? Have you looked for them?

Record Transcription:
1911 Census For England & Wales

Tattlebury Headcorn, Headcorn, Kent, England
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Daisy May Sandford's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 63 1848 Farm Labourer East Suttton Kent
Mary Ann Sandford Wife Married Female 61 1850 - Ulcombe Kent
Bert Sandford Son Single Male 27 1884 Farm Labourer Headcorn Kent
Edith May Sandford Daughter Single Female 17 1894 Mothers Help Headcorn Kent
Leslie William Sandford Grandson - Male 7 1904 School Hollinborn Kent
Archie Sandford Grandson - Male 5 1906 School Headcorn Kent
Gladys Mary Sandford Granddaughter - Female 4 1907 - Headcorn Kent
Daisy May Sandford Granddaughter - Female 1 1910 - Hollinbourn Kent

Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Sandford Irene M Sandford Hollingbourne 2a 1776

No Mother's maiden name given for the 4 children listed in that census which suggests they were all illegitimate

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
SANDFORD, DAISY MAY -
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 907

SANDFORD, GLADYS KATHLEEN MARY -
GRO Reference: 1907 J Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 941

SANDFORD, ARCHIBALD RICHARD -
GRO Reference: 1905 D Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 888

SANDFORD, LESLIE HERBERT WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 865

And the child born post census ??
SANDFORD, IRENE MAY -
GRO Reference: 1911 S Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 1776

Daughter Edith May

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
SANDFORD, EDITH MAY SANDFORD
GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 771

and the marriage - were her parents related ?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
Hooker Stephen Hollingbourne 2a 957
Sandford Herbert Hollingbourne 2a 957
Sandford Mary Ann Hollingbourn 2a 957
YORK Ellen Hollingbourn 2a 957

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Kent
Place Ulcombe
Church name All Saints
Register type Transcript
Marriage date 16 Oct 1869
Groom forename Herbert
Groom surname SANDFORD
Bride forename Mary Ann
Bride surname SANDFORD
Transcribed by Robert Chown
Credit David C Hills
File line number 409

The 1911 census posted by safc - looking at the original

Herbert and Mary Ann say married for 42 years and that they have had 12 children born alive, but 3 have since died.

Unless more than one person is mother to those 5 children it would look to be an unmarried daughter alive at 1911 census time (certainly for the post census birth).

Record Transcription:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Pinkham Green, Headcorn, Hollingbourne, Kent, England


Herbert Sandford


Herbert Sandford

Record: Census Record

Location: Kent, England


Herbert Sandford's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 52 1849 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Mary Ann Sandford Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Kent, England
Thomas Sandford Son Single Male 25 1876 Bricklayers Labourer Kent, England
Kathleen Sandford Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Louisa Sandford Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Bertie Sandford Son Single Male 10 1891 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Edith May Sandford Daughter Single Female 7 1894 - Headcorn, Kent, England
William Sandford Father-In-Law Widower Male 79 1822 Farm Labourer Kent, England
James Sandford Brother Single Male 36 1865 Main Road Foremans Kent, England

Record Transcription:
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Pinkhorn Green, Headcorn, Hollingbourne, Kent, England
otential record matches for the same person in other record sets

Herbert Sandford


Herbert Sandford's Household Members
Members that resided in the household at the time of the census.
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 33 1848 Agricultural Laborer Kent, England
Mary A Sandford Wife Married Female 31 1850 - Ulcombe, Kent, England
Caroline Sandford Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Albert Sandford Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Harriet Sandford Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Rosa Sandford Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Kent, England
Thomas Sandford Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Kent, England
William Sandford Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Headcorn, Kent, England
Walter J Sandford Son Single Male 0 1881 Infant Headcorn, Kent, England

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Kingsworth Wood, Ulcombe, Hollingbourne, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head - Male 23 1848 - Kent, England
Mary Sandford Wife - Female 21 1850 - Kent, England
Caroline Sandford Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Kent, England

-----------------------------------
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Pinkhorn Green, Headcorn, Hollingbourne, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 33 1848 Agricultural Laborer Kent, England
Mary A Sandford Wife Married Female 31 1850 - Ulcombe, Kent, England
Caroline Sandford Daughter Single Female 11 1870 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Albert Sandford Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Harriet Sandford Daughter Single Female 7 1874 Scholar Ulcombe, Kent, England
Rosa Sandford Daughter Single Female 5 1876 Scholar Kent, England
Thomas Sandford Son Single Male 4 1877 Scholar Kent, England
William Sandford Son Single Male 3 1878 Scholar Headcorn, Kent, England
Walter J Sandford Son Single Male 0 1881 Infant Headcorn, Kent, England

-----------------------------------
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Pinkhorn Green, Headcorn, Hollingbourne, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 43 1848 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Mary Ann Sandford Wife Married Female 41 1850 - Kent, England
Thomas Sandford Son Single Male 14 1877 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Walter Sandford Son - Male 10 1881 Scholar Kent, England
Kate Sandford Daughter - Female 8 1883 Scholar Kent, England
Louisa Sandford Daughter - Female 2 1889 - Kent, England
Bertie Sandford Son - Male 1 1890 - Kent, England
James Sandford Lodger Single Male 26 1865 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England

------------------------
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Pinkham Green, Headcorn, Hollingbourne, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Herbert Sandford Head Married Male 52 1849 Agricultural Labourer Kent, England
Mary Ann Sandford Wife Married Female 50 1851 - Kent, England
Thomas Sandford Son Single Male 25 1876 Bricklayers Labourer Kent, England
Kathleen Sandford Daughter Single Female 18 1883 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Louisa Sandford Daughter Single Female 12 1889 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Bertie Sandford Son Single Male 10 1891 - Headcorn, Kent, England
Edith May Sandford Daughter Single Female 7 1894 - Headcorn, Kent, England
William Sandford Father-In-Law Widower Male 79 1822 Farm Labourer Kent, England
James Sandford Brother Single Male 36 1865 Main Road Foremans Kent, England


So all 12 children can be seen on census - none born and died between one census and the next, but you need to track each.

Eldest daughter Caroline married in 1898 (and alive 1911)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
BRIDGE Richard William Hollingbourn 2a 1575 <<<<<<<<
Lewis Kate Agnes Hollingbourn 2a 1575
Sandford Caroline Hollingbourn 2a 1575 <<<<<<<<
Wickham Philip Hollingbourn 2a 1575

------------------------------
1911 Census For England & Wales
4 Invicta Road Folkestone, Folkestone, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Richard Bridge Head Married Male 44 1867 Bricklayer Labourer Kent Hollingbourne
Caroline Bridge Wife Married Female 41 1870 - Kent Headcorn
Dorothy Bridge Daughter - Female 10 1901 School Kent Folkestone
Beatrice Bridge Daughter - Female 6 1905 - Kent Folkestone
Helen Bridge Daughter - Female 2 1909 - Kent Folkestone
Stephen Bridge Father Married Male 69 1842 Brickyard Labourer Kent Wittersham

Harriet registered as Mary Ann Harriet

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
SANDFORD, MARY ANN HARRIET SANDFORD
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 662

-------------------------------
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1899 (>99%)
Link Benjamin George Hollingbourn 2a 1033
Rennie Edwin William Hollingbourn 2a 1033 <<<<<
Sandford Mary Ann H Hollingbourn 2a 1033 <<<<<
Williams Elizabeth Hollingbourn 2a 1033

This marriage as I can see a Benjamin and Elizabeth Link in 1901 Headcorn, Kent

-------------------------------

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
RENNIE, MARY AGNES SANDFORD
GRO Reference: 1905 M Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 59

-------------------------------

1911 Census For England & Wales
Basinghall 31 Elm Road New Malden, New Malden, Surrey, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Edwin William Rennie Head Married Male 43 1868 House Decorator Dover Kent
Mary Rennie Wife Married Female 37 1874 - Headcon Kent
Mary Rennie Daughter - Female 6 1905 - Willing Kent
Violet Rennie Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Willing Kent

SANDFORD, ROSA SANDFORD
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in HOLLINGBOURN Volume 02A Page 632


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Dec 1883 (>99%)
SANDFORD Rose 7 Hollingbourne 2a 411


Kent Burials

First name(s) Rosa
Last name Sandford
Birth year 1876
Residence Headcorn
Age at death 7
Burial year 1883
Burial date 23 Nov 1883
Place Headcorn
County Kent
Country England
Record source Headcorn burials 1560-1903
Record set Kent Burials
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Burials
Collections from England, Great Britain

Kathleen still single in 1911 -

1911 Census For England & Wales
Herne Bay, Herne, Kent, England

First name(s) Kathleen
Last name Sandford
Relationship Servant
Marital status Single
Sex Female
Age 28
Birth year 1883
Birth place Headcorn Kent
Occupation Laundrymaid
House name -
House number -
Street -
Address Herne Bay
Parish Herne
County Kent
Country England
Archive reference RG14
Registration district Blean
Registration district number 59
Enumeration district 12
District number 12
Sub district Herne
Sub district number 2
Census reference RG14PN4363 RG78PN176 RD59 SD2 ED12 SN27
RG78 code number 176

As is Louisa

1911 Census For England & Wales
4 Invicta Road Folkestone, Folkestone, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Albert Sandford Head Widower Male 38 1873 Jobbing Gardeber Kent Ulcombe
Louisa Sandford Sister Single Female 22 1889 Housekeeper Kent Headcorn
Walter Sandford Brother Single Male 30 1881 Jobbing Gardener Kent Headcorn
Cyril Sandford Son - Male 6 1905 - Kent Folkestone
Doris Sandford Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Kent Folkestone

Edith May is still at home in 1911 -

Births Sep 1893 (>99%)
Sandford Edith May Hollingbourn 2a 771

Unlikely but not impossible that any but youngest child would possibly be hers when she would have been 15/16

You may have to buy Birth certs to determine parentage.

Many thanks
There was a brother to William Sandford grandfather name Stephen Sandford 1823 .One of his children was Mary Ann Sandfod. William Sandford 1824 one of his children was Herbert Sandford. These two children later married.

Daisy May's mother was Kate - who later had numerous children with John Overing, but doesn't appear to have married him

Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
Overing Chadwin Sandford Elham 2a 2094
Births Sep 1914 (>99%)
OVERING William J Sandford Elham 2a 2280
Births Mar 1916 (>99%)
Overing Doris P Sandford Hollingbourn 2a 1591
Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
Overing Harold Sandford Hollingbourn 2a 1381
Births Sep 1919 (>99%)
Overing Kathleen M Sandford Hollingbourn 2a 1413
Births Sep 1921 (>99%)
Overing Lettice M Sandford Hollingbourn 2a 1799



Name Daisy May Sandford Overing
Birth Date 12 Oct 1909
Birth Place Headcorn
Age 5
Document Year1914
Relationship to Soldier Child
Form Title Military History Sheet
Number of Images 5
Other RecordsDaisy May Sandford Overing - Child

Household Members
NameAge
Name
John Overing
Age
44
Name
Kate Overing
Name
Daisy May Sandford Overing
Age
5
Name
Chadwin Overing
Age
2
Name
William John Overing


Name: Daisy M Overing
Year: 1947
County or Borough: Twickenham
Ward or Division/Constituency: Twickenham Hampton

On the military record sheet, John claims to have married Kate in the Register Office, Folkestone, on 23rd July 1912, but there is nothing on freebmd, and Kate's name is recorded as 'Overing' on the military record.