Find Ancestors

Hello, Im new on here but i was wondering if anyone knew a Frederick Vernon Randall who was born in Fleetwood 30/12/1924 and was married to Kathleen (Webb) His mothers maiden name was Hull. Im trying to look for any relatives and mother and father etc.

Thank you for any help

Parents -- don't you know them, since you know his mother's birth surname?

I expect this is their marriage:

Name: Fred Randall
Spouse: Jane Hull
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1920
Registration district: Fylde
Registration county (inferred): Lancashire
Volume Number: 8e
Page Number: 1471

That marriage certificate would give you their age at marriage and their fathers' names and occupations. That's what you need to get back farther.

Per the GRO index at Ancestry, he had 3 siblings:

Alice H, 1921
Jean, 1927
Brian, 1931

Your request is a bit of a tall order. No one who knows your FVR is ever likely to see this message, but if you specify a bit what you are looking for, and what your own connection is, and give any other info you already have, we other members would likely be able to help.

No one seems to have the siblings in trees here at GR, but if you add them to yours you might get found by someone searching for them.

This is probably the mother's death:

Name: Jane Randall
Birth Date: 3 Jun 1892
Death Registration Month/Year: Q1-Jan-Feb-Mar 1973
Registration district: Fylde
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10c
Page: 927

It does not match with a Jane Hull birth - she could have been Hull by a first marriage, or the birthdate on her death record could be inaccurate, not an uncommon situation. One of these would be possible -- remembering this is all speculation at this point:

Births Sep 1892
Hull Jane Ormskirk 8b 844

Births Sep 1893
Hull Jane Fylde 8e 721
Hull Jane Gertrude Fylde 8e 691


And likely the father's death:

Name: Fred Randall
Death Registration Month/Year: Q1-Jan-Feb-Mar 1968
Age at death (estimated): 74 (= dob c1894)
Registration district: Fylde
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10c
Page: 305

A GR member has Fred Randall, 1895, Fleetwood, in her tree. I would just do a general search of trees for Randall born in Fleetwood.

Btw, Frederick and Kathleen appear to have had two children in the 1960s in Blackpool. Those names and details would have to be sent to you privately, if you don't have them.

Oh Thank you soo much Janey!

Sorry for the lack of information and tall order, like i said im new to this and getting confused with where to look and what to do.
Where did you get all that information from without having to go through all the records?

Fred also had some sisters, called Pat and Jeane or Gene (unsure of spelling) and a brother who i think died when he was young or just a child. How can i go about finding information on these and also go back further up the randall tree?

Sorry to be a pain - Thanks

I'm having to run off for dinner here in central Canuckistan so I can't poke around any more tonight. Someone else will likely see this before I do again.

You should specify which Fred you're referring to here. I put Frederick Vernon Randall's siblings' names up above:

Alice H, 1921
Jean, 1927
Brian, 1931

Those are the births in Fylde with mother Hull. It could be possible to find their marriages and children.

Where? Ancestry! While you're waiting for another nosy stranger to come along, go sign up for a 14-day free trial at www.ancestry.co.uk (just remember to cancel it in good time so your credit card doesn't get billed).

The links for the various searchable birth/marriage/death indexes are all here:

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx

You can also just try it out without signing up, without being able to see detailed records.

For earlier records - and catching up all the time - it's FreeBMD, which is free:

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

As a matter of fact, all four Randall-Hull births have been transcribed, so just go there and search for

births
surname Randall
mother's surname Hull

and it will take 3 seconds.

I'll check back tomorrow!

Heya,

I think i managed to back back a bit further back from Fred Randall, I think i managed to find his parents, which i think were Albert Randall (b1862 in Gee Cross Cheshire and died in 1919 registered to the fydle) and Sarah Randall (b1862 approx in Haughton Green, Lancashire)

I then think that they had several children:
Eliza Randall 1881
Gertrude Randall 1883
Harry Randall 1889
Eva Randall 1891
Rose Randall 1893
Charles Randall 1900
Fred Randall 1894

Unsure on deaths and marriages and children.

Cheers

Daniel

Remember though -- you need to get the Randall-Hull marriage certificate to be certain, as it will give you Fred's age and father's name! And ditto for Jane, of course.

How would i go about finding this, can i just ring up the local registry office and ask them for it? Is there a site to get this from?

I have also since spoken to my gran and she says that my great grandad was originally from Manchester and moved to Fleetwood. I have also found Alberts birth date in Denton and then also matching a death registered to the fydle.

I think its so facinating about the family history, if this is the case, my grandads aunties owned a hat shop which another sister worked in. Whilst Albert was working in the factory.

Marriage from Lancs bmd:

RANDALL * Frederick Vernon WEBB Kathleen Ellen Blackpool, Christ Church Blackpool C/5/106, 1960.

The marriage cert will tell you his father.

Do you have his birth?

Births Mar 1925 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Randall Frederick V Hull Fylde 8e 885

That will give you both parents, perhaps a better bet than the marriage cert.

I can't find the birth on Lancs bmd, so your easiest bet is to order from the GRO as you seem certain of the facts.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

You will need the reference number given above. It will cost you £7 and taken 5-10 days to arrive as a rule.

Madmeg, I think what Daniel is after is going back farther, i.e. to the parents and siblings of the father (and mother?) of Frederick Vernon Randall 1924.

He has a Fred Randall 1894 and his parents and siblings -- but there's no point in tracing them unless he/we're certain that's the right Fred Randall.

It's the Randall+Hull marriage certificate that is that first essential link in the chain, to get Fred's age and father.

For certificates, I'd start here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The only "concrete" information Daniel has given is that Frederick V Randall married Kathleen Webb and was born in Fylde in 1924. Frederick V's mother's maiden name was Hull. He doesn't tell us how he knows that. It might be family hearsay. He hasn't even told us her forename. I don't know what else he knows for sure.

I might not be so fussy if this were an uncle he were looking at, but it is a direct ancestor.

So I stick with my initial advice unless he already has that info. Get the marriage cert of Fred and Kathleen, or if he feels he already has their fathers' names (not mentioned by him), then the birth of Fred.

I have been down too many wrong roads to take a chance with a direct relative.

Only then would I move backwards to the parents of Fred, who are likely Fred and Jane Hull. I agree there are no other apparent marriages of a Randall and a Hull. But I am still hesitant to make that assumption at this stage, with someone so important as a direct relative.

Then Daniel "thinks" he has found the family on an earlier census, and yes, Gee Cross, Denton and Haughton Green are all places that locals regarded as being Lancashire, as they were right on the Lancashire/Cheshire border. I come from that area. He might be right. I just think that for £7, it is worth the confirmation that Frederick Vernon Randall is the son of Frederick Randall and Jane Hull.

Once we are back onto census records then a bit of educated guesswork can be used, but I just don't feel we are close enough yet.

Okay, I am pedantic!

Margaret

Daniel! Maybe you'd do what I think I suggested earlier - tell us your exact connection to the various people. Are Frederick Vernon Randall and Kathleen Webb your grandparents, or great-grandparents?

If I've placed you right, you're quite a young sprout, barely out of your teens. Your father was the son of Frederick 1924 and Kathleen?

So when you say "I have also since spoken to my gran and she says that my great grandad was originally from Manchester and moved to Fleetwood", is that Kathleen Webb Randall talking about the father of Frederick Vernon Randall, or have I missed a generation?

Kathleen and Frederick married in 1960. I don't think they can be your great-grandparents!


So, if it *is* Kathleen you're talking to, we might figure she knows when her hubby was born. ;) And quite probably she knew his parents, who died a few years after she married their son.

for info this is Fred V's birth from lancsbmd (Rendall this time) but 1925 not 1924 - freebmd also 1925

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1925

RENDALL Frederick Vernon
Fleetwood
mmn = HULL

mistranscribed - 2 of the other children are there as Randall

of the 2 Jane Hull's born in Fylde in 1893

the Jane Gertrude was born in Kirkham

& the Jane in Fleetwood (mmn = Garvey)

lancashireann -- FVR's birth was reg in 1925 because he was born 30/12/1924. I expect there was a bit of celebrating went on before they got to the reg office. ;) So 1925 is the correct date of the registration, 1924 is the correct date of birth.

He died before 1971 so the exact dob isn't included in the GRO index entry.

Hello,

Thank you so much to you all for your help with this.

Yes you are right I am the son of Andrew and Frederick Vernon was my grandad. He married Kathleen Webb (My Gran) we are sure of the date which was 26/10/1960, but unable to locate the cirtificates.

I spoke to my gran again last night at length and she said that Frederick Vernons parents were called Fred Randall and Jane Hull (She cant remember or confirm that Hull was her original maiden name) She told me that Jane also went crazy and was locked away in a mental hospital.

She also told me from what she remembers that Fred Randall's Dad moved from the Manchester area to set up a business. Which she believes to be fish as this is what Fred Randall did for his occupation, and subsequently so did Frederick Vernon.

From what it sounds like i will need to get Fred Randalls birth cirtificate from 1894 or alternatively the wedding cirtificate to Jane in 1920.

What do you think?

Daniel

This looks like the family in 1911, Fred is a fish packer, but Albert hasn't yet got the taste for fish.

1911 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RANDALL, Albert Head Married
30 years M 49 1862 Manager Saw Mill Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Sarah Annie Wife Married F 49 1862 Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Eva Daughter Single F 21 1890 Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Rose Daughter Single F 19 1892 Book Binder Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Fred Son Single M 17 1894 Fish Packer Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Vernon Son Single M 11 1900 Lancashire Denton VIEW
RANDALL, Albert Son Single M 8 1903 Lancashire Denton VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
25462 Reference:
RG14PN25462 RG78PN1455 RD477 SD4 ED7 SN386

Registration District:
Fylde Sub District:
Fleetwood EnumerationDistrict:
7 Parish:
Fleetwood

Address:
58 West St Fleetwood County:
Lancashire

Daniel, I gave you a reference earlier for your Gran's marriage if she wants the certificate, but it seems she is pretty convinced about Fred and Jane Hull, so you can get that for confirmation of his father Albert (providing it doesn't just say "deceased") and Jane's father.

Hi Janey - I had missed the bit about the exact dob on the first post, otherwise I should have realised as my gt grandfather was born 31 Dec and my own and my son's Dec births were registered in the next yr!

I must practise reading all the info!

I googled Randalls and came up with this - unfortunately I could not get through to the page

The Regulations of the Local Sea Fisheries Committeesin ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
method of fishing for sea fish, for the establishment of close seasons for ... north-east from the building standing upon Salthouse Beach, known as Randall's ..... from the mark known as "Rossall Landmark," near Fleetwood, it shall be ...