General Chat

There is a story in the paper today of a little girl being killed by the wind blowing her into the ath of a van. This is so sad and the van driver has been arrested for causing death by dangerous driving.

While I am,of course, wholly sympathetic toward the poor devastated mother, can I please ask you not to judge that driver because I could so easily have been in that very same position.

I was delivering in high winds when a little boy was blown across the pavement,on his feet,toward the road in front of me.Luck was with us that day because his mother managed to grab him but I know I would have killed him otherwise. He was so close I would have had no chance to stop.

Had not thought about that for years.

The speed limit may be, say 30mph. That does not automatically make driving at 30 mph legal. The law also says that speed should be commensurate with traffic conditions. The driver could see people on the pavement and would have known that it was very windy. Thus he should have been driving a lot more slowly than usual.

Some cities e.g. Portsmouth have instituted an urban limit of 20 mph with good reason. Stopping distances from 20mph are much shorter and any collision with pedestrians / cyclists / baby buggies less likely to be fatal.

The police have taken the right decision for the case to be considered carefully in court.

The speed limit on any road is the maximum speed permitted, any driver should be driving according to conditions whether that be due to traffic, weather, or other road users, don't forget that pedestrians are other road users

Roy

But wind comes in sudden gusts,it can blow over high lorries without warning.

I was moving forward in a queue when the little boy appeared in front of me without warning. Your mind is too busy trying to understand the situation to make the reaction quickly enough.

As Porkie Pie says " other road users". It is not exactly unknown for young children to suddenly run out into the road or for mothers and nannies to lose control of prams and buggies.

If the driver did see the possible problem the obvious question is then why did he not stop in time i.e. slow down when he first saw the child. OTOH if the defense was "did not see the buggy" then was the driving "with due care and consideration for the conditions" ?

It is a while since I sat my driving test but remember the instructor ramming it into my head to watch out for :

kids rushing out into the road from the pavement / between parked cars / just after getting off the bus

prams !

pedestrians just after closing time

today I would add "pedestrians with ears attached to iPhone etc", hoodies, pushbikes, skateboard. They may all carry on like idiots but the person driving a ton or more of metal has the duty of care.

"I couldn't stop" must be the lamest and tiredest defense in traffic law.

I wondered how the driver could be charged when the child was in a buggy momentarily unattended when the wind blew buggy into road.

A tragic accident for all concerned.

I don't think anyone should be charged..in this instance it was imho a tragic accident.

Lorries don't get blown over without warning, They get blown over for several reasons, usualy because the wind was to strong at a time when the vehicle was at a disadvantage such as turning/change of direction, or the driver was going to fast for the conditions,or even because the drivers boss would not let the driver park up in a safe place due to deadlines on deliveries

I had many years driving HGV's and on all occasions in high winds the effect of the wind on the vehicle was drastically reduced when i reduced my speed, eg, M62 cross wind doing 56mph vehicle virtually uncontrollable reduce speed to 48mph regained total control

Roy

As was said, the Mother let go of the pram to get something from indoors(Just inside) the wind blew it into the road,and the tragic Accident Occoured,No speed of the vehicle was stated except that the Police stated the driver was not speeding..PP. I,ve been up the M62 many times with a 40ton Arctic and at certain points(As you know) they warn you of cross winds,also to get off if it is too high.It seems to me to be a tragic accident,Don,t blame the Driver before you know all the facts because it could be a case of"There but for the grace of God Go I"My sympathy for the family and the driver.**M**.

I agree that it seems to be just a tragic accident. I feel sorry for all involved

It is not unusual where there is a fatal accident for the police to arrested a driver on suspicion of causing death by careless driving.

I may be wrong, but the driver has only been arrested, not charged. The police will now carry out a full investigation to gather all the evidence to try and establish the cause of the accident and whether anyone committed an offence.

So please do not blame the driver until all the facts are known, once the police have completed their investigations they will decided what action, if any. they are going to take.

My thoughts and sympathy are for the child's family and all others involved in this tragic incident.

Merlin, All motorways have warnings of crosswinds, My post was a response to Sharrons post saying that quote "But wind comes in sudden gusts,it can blow over high lorries without warning" which is incorrect as i attempted to show in my post, Has anyone said the driver was speeding? Ive not seen it said, speed is not the issue it was only said because people think that if the driver was NOT speeding then he was not at fault, The driver was not arrested for causing death by careless driving, The driver was arrested ON SUSPICION of causing death by careless driving Which is actually normal in most cases when theirs been a fatality


The speed issue comes back to the propaganda default position that government and police like to use speed as the cause of all accidents rather than blame the driver for lack or awareness and or ability

Never heard of a 40ton artic before only 32/38/41and 44ton

Roy

I once witnessed a fatal accident when an elderly drunken man was wondering back and forth across a very busy road. He was eventually escorted part of the way back to his home, but shortly after, he appeared again and walked straight in front of a moving car. The driver was not speeding, he braked and swerved to miss the man, but he was knocked to the ground and sadly was pronounced dead at the scene. I had to attend and give evidence at the inquest. The coroner
said that the driver had done everything in his power to avoid hitting the man, and that this was a verdict of accidental death. I knew he man and his family and my heart went out to them, but also saw the devisating effect it had on the driver.

I feel so sorry for this family, but also think that the driver of the van needs some compassion too.

Try a Ford Transcontinentalwith a 16 gear spit shift box,Plus a tri axle unit coupled with a tri axle trailer.Prior to that it was limited to 38 tons gross. When running to Persia (Iran Now) used to transfer extra from a 4 wheeler (On the Docks ) to gross Higher.Ps. the engine was a V12 Twin Turbo. It was a special build by GKN.To ship goods abroad in the days well before the EU.**M**.

A 5 axles max weight is 40 tonne,,,,ot can be split to half and half but still carries 40tonne max,

a child in a runaway pushchair can be killed at 10mph,,,it happended on the A212 in and out of Croydon at early morning rush so imagin the road was pretty heavy with all manner of traffic and speed would have been limited,,,,,,,a tragic time for the family on the loss of their precious child,,,,,heartbreaking ,,,,,,,,perhaps CCTV will help the police......and hope the driver is getting some help......

Kay there were three axles on the Unit and Three on the Trailer,all with twin wheels except for the steering a total of 22 wheels in all.plus two spares and a multiple of spares.Any repairs you did yourself unless impossible. As I said this was before the EU.and most times you traveled in convoy.the top road in Turkey was Bandit Country. If you left your truck you lost it. :-D :-D

Merlin,,,,,,,,,, dont tell me about HGV &ADR ;-) :-D :-D :-D

Merlin, Ive just checked up and i stand corrected on the 40 ton artic but you said you drove a Ford Transcontinentalwith a 16 gear spit shift box,Plus a tri axle unit coupled with a tri axle trailer, so you had 6 axles, Was your suspension springs rather than air?
which is possible why it would be restricted to 40ton
The maximum weight was set by suspension type, number of axles and engine braking ability and the rating of the 5th wheel, The number of gears was not part of it, when the weight went from 38 ton it went up to 41 ton on 5 or more axles and then when 44 ton came in it was set at 6 axles So If i read your post correctly then the maximum weight for a Ford Transcontinental with a 3 axle unit and a 3 Axle trailer went from 38 ton to 41 ton then 44 ton the exceptions where on old lorries that still had springs for suspension and their is still scope to have 5 axles at 44ton

Kay, the weights are Gross so include the weight of the vehicle so at 40 ton you cannot Carrie 40 ton

http://www.worcestershire.gov.uk/cms/pdf/A-Simplified-Guide-to-Lorry-Types-and-Weights.pdf


Roy

an unbelievably tragic accident - remember not long back a child in a buggy was blown into a harbour somewhere in the UK - the harbour master cycled to the spot and jumped in to save the little boy in the pushchair

Even the Grandmother has said it was just a tragic accident as the Mother was blaming herself. I feel so sorry for all concerned, just a few seconds is all it took. And that will live with that driver always too.