General Chat

Kathryn I dont cite supernanny in any way other than to show its not unheard of behaviour,in fact it is fairly common
I chose that show because it is one most people in the UK are familiar with.
Im glad your sister advocated for 2 very ill children,that to me is completely different to two perfectly well children who are being cared for by there parents.
Calling social services in a country where Lindy herself said they can be anything but reasonable may be completely devastating for this family and they are not neglecting there children or doing anything wrong.
Once again I point out I am not suggesting Lindy direct them at anything.
I am suggesting that lindy offer them a friendly ear.
This actually works extremely well
and is the cornerstone of most coffee groups and informal meetings of mums where they get to see how other children interact and bounce many ideas of each other.
this in turn gives them the confidence to ask for help or to decide things are ok
The difference is that you have decided this childs behaviour is dangerous and dysfunctional and I disagree with that.
They certainly need a hand but not from some over bearing government agency.
Perhaps as a compromise Lindy you might like to speak to your daughter in law about parenting classes or suggestions where she might be able to access other help

Tania, we're agreeing to disagree, right?

"The difference is that you have decided this childs behaviour is dangerous and dysfunctional and I disagree with that."

How very queer of me, to hear about a child wrapping a string around a younger child's neck and choking her and "decide" that the behaviour is dangerous. Myself, I might look up "dangerous" in the dictionary and not have to decide anything at all.

"Im glad your sister advocated for 2 very ill children,that to me is completely different to two perfectly well children who are being cared for by there parents."

Yes, and I don't recall saying different. I just think that if we're going to haul our favourite experts in to bolster our analyses, I'll go with my own. Who, as I said, has been on the board of a non-profit parent co-op daycare centre for quite a few years, and very hands-on involved in its operation. I'll let you know.

"I am suggesting that lindy offer them a friendly ear.
This actually works extremely well"

IN SOME CASES that you know about. You do NOT know anything about this case, and I continue to find your insistance that an unrelated, unsupervised layperson take on this role to be irresponsible.

I would agree with that approach *only* to steer the parents to professional assistance, which is precisely what you are rejecting.

"They certainly need a hand but not from some over bearing government agency."

Over-bearing government agencies have child psychologists and social workers, and I have no doubt that you know that access to those services is the reason that posters here are suggesting a report to such an agency.

I see at least one child at risk, and when I see a child at risk, I don't suggest a nice cup of tea.

Kathryn when I see a child at risk I dont suggest a cup of tea either and frankly I have seen plenty of at risk children over the years it is part and parcel of my job.
I report abusers in a heartbeat,I also report any family where I can see a child will be unsafe or neglected
I dont no wether you deliberately set the tone of your posts to be as antagonistic as possible or wether its just an unfortunate trait,so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
If you in the course of your life saw social services in action you would know they are a double edged sword.
They are a godsend for abused children but they can also be a bloody nightmare for families who are caught in their systems.
parents can, and do,have children taken from them,an overzealous social worker can cause havoc and parents have to go to great lengths to prove their innocence....
Lyndi has said herself they are wonderful parents,they do not then deserve to have their family turned upside down by this agency.
What they do have is a 3 year old child who did something perfectly within the realms of a normal 3 yr old,we know it was dangerous but the child dosent.
she could have been playing horses or doggy for all you know.
The reality is that left unsupervised pre school children can and do do things that are a danger to themselves and others,it is the nature of the age group,it dosent make this family dangerous or dysfunctional nor does it make this child anything other than a normal kid,

A very difficult situation for Lindy and while there is a lot of good advice here I don't think i could begin to advise her because i don't know how things work in Portugal. It may be that if she reports it they would immediately remove the children, their ways are not necessarily the same as here in UK or in Canada.

Hopefully Lindy's sister will have a suggestion as to the solution but it is very worrying. And, actually we don't really know that the parents have not sought advice do we?

Lindy I don't envy you at all and I assume that their culture being different they would object strongly to 'outside' the family advice from you. Is there anyone else (Portugese) that you are friendly enough with and who knows the family that you could involve? It does sound like more than normal sibling jealousy.

Ann
Glos

What worries me in all of this is that when the new baby arrived, the elder child tried to throttle it twice. That elder child would have been 2 years old at the time. How on earth does a 2 year old know about strangulation? Now, 2 years on the elder child tries to put a noose round the younger child's neck.

Where on earth has this child learned about such things? The worrying thing is that young children tend to learn an awful lot from adults. So is the older child being subjected to these things by an adult?

Yes, jealousy does occur between siblings and they do try to hurt each other....but they don't generally try to kill each other. This is something far greater than Super Nanny has to deal with!

Lindy....I don't envy you having to make a choice about what should be done but I'm sure you know it can't be left.

Jeanette x

I am still very concerned about this child.

I didn't suggest that she had a serious problem lightly. I'm a qualified and experienced primary teacher, Guide Leader and mother so have had quite a lot to do with children of all ages.

This is way beyond normal sibling rivalry and I fear it could lead to tragedy if not dealt with.

If I were teaching a class of reception children aged 4 and saw one attempt to strangle another one (knowing it was not the first time that child had reacted like that) then I think an educational psychologist would be called in.

If nothing else this family needs some sort of professional advice and perhaps they can request some sort of family counselling or an appointment with a suitably qualified psychologist through medical channels.

It's not a problem which is going to go away. I am still worried that the child also appears to not relate well with other people.

Sue

Evening everyone,

This is going to be a bit long winded so please bear with me.

Firstly, I would like to thank all of you that have contributed to this thread. Secondly, I have decided against making a report to social services but have not been idol...

My youngest son's new girlfriend, whom I have only met for the second time, told me it was unethical for her to get involved as she was not consulted. I respect her attitude, however, she did give me the name and number of a lady who deals with potential problematic children that are not yet in the system who would be able to advise me as she councils parents and children.

There is a bigger problem out there with sibling jealousy then I realized...I told the councilor the little I know about the family as I do not like to pry into other people's business. I thanked the lady for her advise and have her phone number which I have every intentions of passing on to my neighbor as soon as I find the right moment to do so.

I first met the husband when he was renovating the cottage next door, he is an engineer and has his own business. He asked if I would kindly let the electrical inspectors in the house when they arrived sometime during that week and left the key with me.

Two months later they moved in with a nearly two year old and wife eight months pregnant. It was not an easy pregnancy and the two year old was shuttled back and forth to the grandparents. I helped out where I could but some children just don't take to strangers...

The baby is a happy cute little thing with a permanent smile pasted on her face. She is always blowing kisses to everyone and will jabber away, so it is natural that everyone is drawn to her and inadvertently or not the elder child, because of her standoffish behavior, is over looked.

It makes sense that the eldest one resents the youngest one and most likely sees her as a threat. Her whole world has been turned upside down. Moved away from the grandparents and rest of the family, new house, going to day school, Mom going back to work...who knows what goes on in her little head. I am not making excuses for the child's behavior but merely speaking my mind as I see it.

This evening ( or morning where Mum lives ) I called her and asked her advice and she reminded me of a few instances when my brother and I were growing up. Once we tried to hang the neighbors' son from an old apricot tree that we had in the backyard. One of us had removed the handles from my skipping rope, put a noose around the kids neck, threw the rope over a branch and pulled from the other end. We had been playing cowboys and crooks and the kid was not in the least bit worried that we nearly strangled him. Mum happened to look out the window and saw what was happening and we both got a good old fashioned hiding. I have no recollection of this but have heard the story on a number of occasions, we were older then my neighbors' little girls.

On another occasion Mum had to pull Paddy off of me as he was sitting on me and strangling me. Twice he tried to drown me. I am three years older then him, but used to tease him something awful and he had a very quick temper.

As I was the girl he was not allowed to hit me. Being this demonic child who took pleasure out of taunting her younger brother I did not turn out too bad as an adult and Mother. I must say that I am very lucky with my two boys as the eldest has always been there for his headstrong brother and as an adult still looks out for him.

I have every intention of encouraging the parents to seek counseling. OH is on his summer holidays at the end of the month and this will give me the perfect excuse to invite them over for a BBQ which we always do during the summer months.

Lindy xx

That all sounds very sensible Lindy.

I hope it all goes well and everything turns out for the best.

Sue
x

Thats great lindy,they sound like a lovely little family,with plenty of the usual pressures of modern life,I am sure that they will be really glad of your help.
do you like baking,I wonder if the little girl likes things like that,she might love some special big girl time making something with you if her mum and dad let her.
Anyway it sounds like you are on the right path,a little bit of understanding goes a really long way
Regards Tania
PS Thank god your mother looked out the window when she did,I must admit i laughed out loud when I saw that,poor old neighbours kid

Good luck Lindy. Hope all goes well xx