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John Joseph’s birth was registered OND1859

yes I have that

John Joseph May
Registration Date 1859
Quarter of the Year Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Place Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, England
Volume 10b
Page 51

I have gone through again in the 1891 census today and still can't find him. there are so many of that name or similar.

Baptism entry
While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data
Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Northumberland
Place Newcastle upon Tyne
Church name (Links to more information) St Andrew
Register type (Links to more information) Bishop's Transcript
Register entry number 714
Baptism date 04 Dec 1859
Person forename John Joseph
Father forename Thomas
Mother forename Ann
Father surname MCDOUGLE MAY
Person abode Stowell St
Father occupation Plasterer
Transcribed by Christine Elliott
File line number 1497

I posted the info about his birth for the benefit of the helpers

You may just have to accept that you'll never find him in 1891.
We all have at least one person who seems to disappear from records.

Thank you all,

You have been extremely helpful and have found a few entries that I did not discover.

I guess I will have to accept that I may never discover the entry which is so frustrating as Im sure it hold vital info to allow me to see how he came to take on my Grt Grandad.

Again, thank you all
Jinet

If your relative was Ernest (your post isn’t clear) one would think that he was JJM’s illegitimate child, as it would be strange, to say the least, for a man to take on some woman’s child if he had no connection. Although, if it was the case, why was the poor child dumped with neighbours by 1911?

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
16, Grosvenor Street, Gateshead, Durham, England

Joseph Percival Head Widower Male 39 1852 Steam engine fitter Hexham, Northumberland, England
Edith Percival Daughter - Female 9 1882 Scholar Gateshead, Durham, England
Dorothy May Servant Married Female 27 1864 Domestic servant Gateshead, Durham, England
Robert May Son - Male 3 1888 - Gateshead, Durham, England

ARMITAGE, ROBERT JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 797

Name Robert Joseph Armitage
Gender Male
Birth Date 27 Dec 1887
Baptism Date 4 Jan 1888
Baptism Place Gateshead, Durham, England
Father Robert Armitage
Mother Dorothy Armitage

Someone lied..................


Name Dorothy Daley
Age 52
Estimated Birth Year abt 1862
Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place Newcastle upon Tyne, Northumberland, United Kingdom
Death Date Sep 1914
Inferred Death Place Northumberland, United Kingdom
Volume 10b
Page 26

Check for the 1891 entry now and again.

For years I couldn’t find my great great grandmothers death entry between 1891 & 1901 census then after about 10 years of looking she popped up on the 1901 and I found her death later that year. But I’ve never found the death of her husband many years earlier.

Ernest was 20 by 1911, so not a child. (Replying to ErikaH's post at 09:27)

The trouble with censuses is that they only tell us who was in a household on one particular night.

Maybe he just happened to be with with his chum John Henry Langman's family on that one night, for some reason.

On the other hand, maybe he didn't get on with JJM's new wife and had moved out permanently.

ARMITAGE, REBECCA PERCIVAL
GRO Reference: 1892 M Quarter in GATESHEAD Volume 10A Page 921

1911 Census For England & Wales
62 John St Blaydon, Winlaton, Durham, England
Thomas Holliday Head Married Male 30 1881 Coal miner hewer Cumberland Cleator Moor
Edith Holliday Wife Married Female 30 1881 - Durham Gateshead
Frederick Holliday Son - Male 5 1906 School Durham Blaydon
Hannah Holliday Daughter - Female 3 1908 - Durham Blaydon
Robert Holliday Son - Male 1 1910 - Durham Blaydon
Robert Percival Boarder Single Male 23 1888 Coal miner putter Durham Gateshead
Rebecca Percival Boarder Single Female 19 1892 Servent domestic Durham Gateshead

Rebecca, Robert and Dorothy were not with Joseph Percival and his daughter in 1901........can't, at the moment, find them anywhere

Agreed, AG, not a child in 1911. Lost track of dates in the convolution of strands............. :-S :-S

Interestingly, Ernest (or at least, "infant") is on the list of passengers in 1892 when his mother Ester and (half?)-brother James emigrated to NZ.

His entry has been scored through, with a note which looks like "No B", whatever that means.
So the decision to leave him in England must have been a last-minute one.

The OP is about Ellen Serle, who Jinet refers to as her 'relative', so I'm not sure who we are supposed to be looking for...............

Ernest was born the illegitimate son of Esther Ruth Neve whilst her husband was in New Zealand.
She set sail and although bought a ticket for Ernest he did not set sail which was confirmed by New Zealand records. Esther died a couple of years later in NZ.

This is why I was hoping to find the 1891 Census for John Jospeh as at this time he left his wife Dorothy nee Armitage and she took up with Robert Percival having a family with hem. Oldest daughter sent away to her parents.
Later Dorothy and Robert Percival separated and she went on to marry Mr Daley.

(The story goes that Esther had an affair with a DR who she was a servant too producing Ernest. John Joseph a relative took the baby. No one is sure and it's hearsay).

I initially asked if anyone could see John Joseph in the 1891 Census as I have tried without success. I gave background thinking this may be helpful.
I have also been unsuccessful in tracing the birth or marriage of Ellen Serle to John Joseph. which I thought may assist also in finding the elusive census.

Apologies didn't mean to confuse people.

This is where a dna test may come in useful.

Whilst it may not solve everything you may be able to prove or disprove a family story.

The test is best taken from someone in the generation closest to the one you are researching.

Still don't know which of these many people is your blood relative...............................

OP says John Joseph May is her grt grt grandfather so presumably she has her line going back to that - isn’t it all the others she is trying to place?

A very tangled web.

So many confusing posts..................just hoping for one bit of clarity ;-) ;-) ;-)

If JJM is her direct line, which of his proven children is the link?

Ernest Clifford Neve died under that name………may have married twice.

So he didn’t apparently think he was related to JJM