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That's interesting about Florence.

Sarah Rebecca's brother Luke appears to have emigrated to the US, too, though I can't see any record of that.

He married Annie Elizabeth Iveson in Bradford in 1885.
I see no sign of Annie after that.

He was a plasterer at marriage, and there's a Luke Whitehouse, plasterer, in Brooklyn in 1895.

He probably died in Manhattan in 1905.


Sarah Rebecca's sister Mary/Maria Ann also disappears after 1891, when she's in Knaresborough.

I wonder if Sarah Rebecca also emigrated? But can't see any record of it.

Just to update before I post this as answered (in part at least)

I found Florence in 1901 at an Industrial School for Girls. In 1911 she married in New Jersey. Apart from on her marriage certificate where she states she was born in Leeds to John Hartley and Sarah Whitehouse, at every census she declares herself to have been born in the USA (Iowa). So no idea when she left for USA.

So don't think I/we are going to find Sarah Rebecca :-(

Thank you for your help

Jude

I'll leave it with you, Jude.

Name John Lawrence Hartley
Gender Male
Age 22
Birth Date abt 1922
Death Date 18 Feb 1944
Cemetery Naval Memorials In The United Kingdom Plymouth Part IV
Burial Country England
Regimental Number D/MX 101280
Region or Memorial Memorial Register
Father Ernest Hartley
Mother Emily Hartley

Name John Lawrence Hartley
Event Death
Birth Date 28 Aug 1921
Birth Place Liverpool, Lancs.
Death Date 18 Feb 1944
Death Age 22

Sorry I missed that....but it doesn't help with Sarah Rebecca which is my only reason for wanting to trace the children. Technically they are not relations of mine but I am just curious.

John J Donnelly Head Married Male 37 1864 Fisherman Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Isabel Donnelly Wife Married Female 33 1868 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John J Donnelly Son - Male 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charles Keenan Step son - Male 14 1887 Printers apprentice Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ernest F Keenan Step son - Male 7 1894 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ernest Harkey Boarder - Male 15 1886 Boot finisher Bradford, Yorkshire, England
John J Donnelly Head Married Male 37 1864 Fisherman Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Isabel Donnelly Wife Married Female 33 1868 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John J Donnelly Son - Male 12 1889 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charles Keenan Step son - Male 14 1887 Printers apprentice Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ernest F Keenan Step son - Male 7 1894 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ernest Hartley Boarder - Male 15 1886 Boot finisher Bradford, Yorkshire, England

FMP has transcribed surname as HarKey

?? (cert will name father.)

Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)
Hartley Ernest Wood Carlisle 10b 1330
Wood Emily Hartley Carlisle 10b 1330

Birth a year 'out' but not unusual

1939 Register
79 Grandison Road, Liverpool, Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England
Ernest Hartley 13 Sep 1886 Male Tram Conductor Married 86 1
Emily Hartley 08 May 1891 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 86 2
John L Hartley 28 Aug 1921 Male Apprentice Chronium ?aters Single 86 3
Jeffery P Hartley 06 Jul 1925 Male Shop Buy Boot Trade Single 86 4
William E Hartley 16 Sep 1928 Male At School Single 86 5

I’ve told you where Ernest was in 1891!!

Argyll Gran, I have Sarah Ann Cox/Hartley in all the censuses

In 1901 she is a servant at 32 Wellington Road, Edgebaston, Birmingham
In 1911 she is a servant at Cross Keys, Jamaica Row, Birmingham
In 1921 She is a boarder/friend at 8/160 Edward Road, Balsall Heath, Birmingham
The family name is Cox but I haven't established a family connection yet

And in 1926 on her death she was at 53 Upper Cox Street Balsall Heath which led on from Poplar Terrace which is where this thread began :-)

Not found hide or hair of Sarah Rebecca after the wedding but now I have the children I may be able to glean something from them...IF I can find them!

Jude

Jude

:-D :-D :-D

Completely irrelevant thought flashed through my mind -

"Fly Fishing" by J R Hartley.

He was a Carter on 1891 census - living with parents

It does seem that all three children were fathered by the same man. It is also pretty obvious that he only married once.

Baptisms of the Hartley/Whitehouse children.

Note that their father is a labourer in 1885, and a carter in 1887. Not a metal broker or similar. Not the same man??

Florence Hartley
in the North Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1924
Name Florence Hartley
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 7 Oct 1887
Baptism Place Knaresborough, Holy Trinity, Yorkshire, England
Father John Richard Hartley [ occupation: Carter . Address: Waterside ]
Mother Sarah Rebecca Hartley
Page number 145


Ernest Hartley
in the West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name Ernest Hartley
Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 14 Sep 1885
Baptism Date 14 Oct 1885
Baptism Place Bradford, St Augustine, Yorkshire, England
Parish as it Appears Undercliffe, St Augustine
Father John Hartley [ occupation: Labourer. Address: 54 Hustler Street ]
Mother Rebecca Hartley

The boy Ernest was in Knaresborough in 1891, along with Mary Whitehouse, born c1870 in Birmingham, and his grandmother Eliza A Wood

Don’t see any sign of his sister………..

Haven’t so far been able to find EITHER Sarah on censuses after 1891…perhaps you’ve had more luck?

Other than she named him as the father.......at the address of his father..The Lodge Bowling Park....

The mother, then, so no sign of whoever the father was.

Sarah Ann Cox nee Hartley

Jude

Repeating……(you may have missed the question)

Who registered Albert’s birth?

Just bought two certs Hartley/Whitehouse and both are spot on.

Ernest in 1885 and Florence in 1887

Something maybe to tie down where she went after the births.

Jude

Erika H

Just got the death cert....

Declarant was M. A. Holden, older sister.

I had seen that Reform School thing...he was there for stealing three ducks and a hen. Sentence seems to be 10 days and 4 years......

He was also acquitted in 1897 of fraudulently obtaining a pony. Didn't think they were relevant to my search although they confirm he seems to have been a thoroughly bad feckless lot!

Not sure what Sarah Cox was doing in Yorkshire to have got pregnant (assuming she met him in Yorkshire and not in Stourport). The other Sarah's mother remarried in 1878 after Thomas had died in 1876. She relocated to Knaresborough in Yorkshire which might explain why THAT Sarah was in Yorkshire to get married to him. Although other than the marriage certificate I haven't found any trace of her in Bradford before or after the marriage.

Jude

There is no marriage for Sarah Cox to anyone named Hartley in the area in which she was born and raised.......or in Yorkshire

Her son in 1901

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
35, Brindley Street, Upper Mitton, Droitwich, Worcestershire, England
Isaiah Jones Head Married Male 52 1849 Iron hinge dresser Ombersley, Worcestershire, England
Annie Jones Wife - Female 59 1842 - Worcestershire, England
John R Jones Son Single Male 17 1884 Cirele cutter tin Worcestershire, England
Albert E T Jones Son - Male 15 1886 Apprentice to stone mason Worcestershire, England
Alice Lowe Step daughter Single Female 29 1872 Ladies maid Hamstead, London, England
Albert Hartley Nephew - Male 11 1890 - Yorkshire, England

You say you have Albert's birth cert - who was the informant?