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I wonder if anyone can help me find the 1931 census return for the above couple. Dorothy Irene (nee Dransfield) and Percy Hill who were married in Barnsley in 1924 (July, Aug and Sept. quarter). Dorothy was born in 1903 (April, May or June). I understand they had a daughter called Elizabeth (Betty) who went on to commit suicide. The couple may have ended up in Cheshire, but not sure. Any more info you could find on this couple, ie. when they died and their children would be most appreciated. I can't seem to find Dorothy Dransfield on the 1921 census.

Kind regards, William Hollingworth.

1939 REGISTER

1939 Register
Hatherton House Cottages, Hatherton, Nantwich R.D., Cheshire, England

Percy Hill 22 May 1887 Male Groom Married 17 1
Dorothy Hill 13 May 1903 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 17 2
Betty Marjorie Hill 26 Sep 1924 Female Seeking Employment Single 17 3

Name Dorothy Irene Dransfield
Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 13 May 1903
Baptism Date 10 Sep 1903
Baptism Place Barnsley, St Edward the Confessor, Yorkshire, England
Father Allen Dransfield
Mother Annie Dransfield

Don't know where you looked for 1921......................

1921 Census Of England & Wales
Mation Lloyd Hospital, Quay Road, Bridlington, Yorkshire (East Riding), England

Maude Elizabeth Oldfield Head Female 1885 35 Toronto, Ontario, Canada Hospital Matron -
Dorothy Senior Officer Female 1894 26 Darrington, Yorkshire, England Sick Nurse -
Mabel Briggs Rhodes Officer Female 1895 26 Bradford, Yorkshire, England Sick Nurse -
Dorothy Irene Dransfield Officer Female 1903 18 Yorkshire, England Sick Nurse -
Mary Jane Madden Servant Female 1877 44 York, Yorkshire, England Cook

fmp version



Hatherton House Cottages, Hatherton, Nantwich R.D., Cheshire, England
1939 register badge

Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
Percy Hill 22 May 1887 Male Groom Married 17 1
Dorothy Hill 13 May 1903 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 17 2
Betty Marjorie Hill 26 Sep 1924 Female Seeking Employment Single 17 3

Oops, sorry Maddie. Just edited my 1939 to show FMP which is far superior to Ancestry which I'd posted earlier

Name Betty Marjorie Hill
Gender Female
Death Age 43
Birth Date abt 1924
Residence Place 02 Mossford-Avenue, Crewe
Death Date Abt 1967
Obituary Date 8 Jun 1967
Obituary Place Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Newspaper Title Nantwich Chronicle

She thought she had cancer because her mother had died with it. She put her head in a gas oven................the PM showed she was perfectly healthy with no trace of cancer..

How sad..................

) Dorothy I
County Cheshire
Last name Hill
Volume 10A
Sex Female
Page 275
Birth year 1903
Country England
Age 62
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 4
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1965
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District Crewe

????
Percy
County Cheshire
Last name Hill
Volume 10A
Sex Male
Page 883
Birth year 1888
Country England
Age 68
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 1
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1956
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District West Cheshire

Dear Maddie and Erika, I am sincerely grateful for the time you have taken to fill in my family tree. As you say it is a tragic story and one which is now ringing bells with me from discussions with family relatives. I am out of touch doing family history research and appreciate all your advice. Kind regards, Will Hollingworth.

Sorry one more thing. Are either of you able to find out if Betty had any family when she committed suicide?

She had no siblings.
Her parents had died.
She was not married.

Dorothy had a sister Marjorie, and a brother Wilfred .

DRANSFIELD, MARJORIE mmn COLDWELL
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 237

DRANSFIELD, WILFRED mmn COLDWELL
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 438



Wilfred Dransfield
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name Wilfred Dransfield
Registration Date Oct 1944 [Nov 1944] [Dec 1944]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Birmingham
Inferred County Warwickshire
Spouse Hilda M Phesie
Volume Number 6d
Page number 321


Wilfred and Hilda had two children - a daughter born 1947, and a son born 1950, both in Northampton. As they are both living, I'm not posting their names here.

The son and daughter both married, and they each have two children.


Marjorie appears to have married (Hollingworth) in Wiltshire in 1938, and died in Lincoln in 1989.
She and her husband had a son and a daughter, born in Caistor in the early 1940s.

The son married and had a son.
I don't see any definite marriage or death for the daughter - too many people with the same name, if she didn't use all her middle initials.

I assume you know about the Hollingworth family!

According to the newspaper report she lived alone.

What do you mean by ‘family’?

Many thanks ArgllGran, you made me laugh! Hi Erika, I just wondered if she had any children. My grandparent, Marjorie, lost touch with her I think and we don't know if she had any children or grandchildren who are still alive. It would appear not. Many thanks for all your help.

Any children would have been illegitimate…..the only way to find out is to look for births and buy certs

Good luck with your search……….it will take some time ;-) ;-)

Erika, as you appear to be the fount of all knowledge on here, I have one cheeky question. I have been looking into my grandfather's parentage as there is a rumour his sister was in fact his mother. His birth certificate in 1907 clearly contradicts the rumour with an obvious father and mother, everything fits out. I have read that grandparents might have covered as a child's "parents" if their child sired a bastard. The family lived in Grimsby. Is this true? I spoke to someone on here a few years ago and they thought it would be unlikely that grandparents would cover it up and deliberately lie on an official document. My grandfather was born at home and his sister was 16 then, his mother was about 36 at the time so perfectly plausible she is the natural mother (they had nine kids). My question is, is there any way I can go checking if the sister was in fact the mother? One thing is nagging me is that my grandfather was not in the family home on the 1911 census, and can't find him anywhere else.....and he wasn't staying at the sister's house either.

Jumping in here -

yes, it's possible that the grandparents could have lied when registering the birth.
There is no way you can prove whether they did or not.

Is this the grandfather you're talking about?

Leslie Clifford Best
in the 1921 England Census
Name Leslie Clifford Best
Gender Male
Age 14 Years 4 Months
Relation to Head Son
Orphanhood Both Parents Alive
Estimated Birth Year 1907
Birth Place Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address 50 Wilholme Road
Residence Place Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Education Whole-Time
Occupation Schoolboy
Inhabited Y
Ward Wellow
Parliamentary Division Grimsby Pb
Registration District Grimsby
Registration District Number 422
Sub registration district Great Grimsby
Sub Registration District Number 1
Respondent Oliver J Best
Enumeration District Name Grimsby Cb
Enumeration District 4
Schedule 238
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Oliver James Best 52 Years 4 Months Head
Mary Ann Best 51 Years 2 Months Wife
Ethel May Stephenson 31 Years 4 Months Daughter - married
Harold Abbrey Best 27 Years 8 Months Son
Oliver Arthur Best 24 Years 9 Months Son
Doris Lily Taylor 20 Years 2 Months Daughter - married
Leslie Clifford Best 14 Years 4 Months Son

Ethel must be the sister who might be his mother.
For our reference - she married Robert Stephenson in Grimsby on 3/11/1908.

Parents taking on their daughter's illegitimate child was extremely common practice. The birth cert records the info given by the person registering the event, which may or may not be the truth. People were just as likely to lie then as they are now.
Incidentally, only a male can 'sire' a child............a female 'bears' one.

Who is your grandfather living with in 1921?

I can't see Leslie anywhere in 1911.