Find Ancestors

Sorry, I also didn't read the second page where you mention the baptism record. That gives some credence to the legitimacy argument! (that said, I know from previous research that my great grandfather sired a love child with a girl that worked in his pub and denied it in court!!) Funny how obsessed you get about these things...sadly Leslie died before I was born in 1971. Once again you have both been extremely helpful.

Many thanks indeed for the clarification. I was hoping you were going to say the opposite! There really is no way of finding out one way or the other if he was illegitimate.

The ones who died:

BEST, IVY CONSTANCE 0
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 369

BEST, HERBERT CHARLES 4
GRO Reference: 1897 M Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 439

BEST, REGINALD LEONARD 0
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in GRIMSBY Volume 07A Page 431

Yes, that includes Leslie.

Oliver and Mary Ann married in 1888.


BEST, HERBERT CHARLES mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1892 S Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 623

BEST, JOHN WALTON mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 581

BEST, ETHEL MAY WALTON
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 661

BEST, IVY CONSTANCE mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 656

BEST, HAROLD AUBREY mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1893 D Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 609

BEST, OLIVER ARTHUR mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in CAISTOR Volume 07A Page 646

BEST, REGINALD LEONARD mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1899 M Quarter in GRIMSBY Volume 07A Page 620

BEST, DORIS LILY mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in GRIMSBY Volume 07A Page 641

BEST, LESLIE CLIFFORD mmn WALTON
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in GRIMSBY Volume 07A Page 627

1911 census the couple say they’ve had 9 children, three of whom have died.

Did the ‘9’ include Leslie?

The baptism record on FMP names Oliver and Mary as his parents and people were less likely to lie to a vicar than to a civil servant

His school admission record in 1913 also names Oliver as his father…….address Cross Keys Inn, High Street, Cleethorpes

I can't see Leslie anywhere in 1911.

Parents taking on their daughter's illegitimate child was extremely common practice. The birth cert records the info given by the person registering the event, which may or may not be the truth. People were just as likely to lie then as they are now.
Incidentally, only a male can 'sire' a child............a female 'bears' one.

Who is your grandfather living with in 1921?

Jumping in here -

yes, it's possible that the grandparents could have lied when registering the birth.
There is no way you can prove whether they did or not.

Is this the grandfather you're talking about?

Leslie Clifford Best
in the 1921 England Census
Name Leslie Clifford Best
Gender Male
Age 14 Years 4 Months
Relation to Head Son
Orphanhood Both Parents Alive
Estimated Birth Year 1907
Birth Place Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address 50 Wilholme Road
Residence Place Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England
Education Whole-Time
Occupation Schoolboy
Inhabited Y
Ward Wellow
Parliamentary Division Grimsby Pb
Registration District Grimsby
Registration District Number 422
Sub registration district Great Grimsby
Sub Registration District Number 1
Respondent Oliver J Best
Enumeration District Name Grimsby Cb
Enumeration District 4
Schedule 238
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Oliver James Best 52 Years 4 Months Head
Mary Ann Best 51 Years 2 Months Wife
Ethel May Stephenson 31 Years 4 Months Daughter - married
Harold Abbrey Best 27 Years 8 Months Son
Oliver Arthur Best 24 Years 9 Months Son
Doris Lily Taylor 20 Years 2 Months Daughter - married
Leslie Clifford Best 14 Years 4 Months Son

Ethel must be the sister who might be his mother.
For our reference - she married Robert Stephenson in Grimsby on 3/11/1908.

Erika, as you appear to be the fount of all knowledge on here, I have one cheeky question. I have been looking into my grandfather's parentage as there is a rumour his sister was in fact his mother. His birth certificate in 1907 clearly contradicts the rumour with an obvious father and mother, everything fits out. I have read that grandparents might have covered as a child's "parents" if their child sired a bastard. The family lived in Grimsby. Is this true? I spoke to someone on here a few years ago and they thought it would be unlikely that grandparents would cover it up and deliberately lie on an official document. My grandfather was born at home and his sister was 16 then, his mother was about 36 at the time so perfectly plausible she is the natural mother (they had nine kids). My question is, is there any way I can go checking if the sister was in fact the mother? One thing is nagging me is that my grandfather was not in the family home on the 1911 census, and can't find him anywhere else.....and he wasn't staying at the sister's house either.

Any children would have been illegitimate…..the only way to find out is to look for births and buy certs

Good luck with your search……….it will take some time ;-) ;-)

Many thanks ArgllGran, you made me laugh! Hi Erika, I just wondered if she had any children. My grandparent, Marjorie, lost touch with her I think and we don't know if she had any children or grandchildren who are still alive. It would appear not. Many thanks for all your help.

According to the newspaper report she lived alone.

What do you mean by ‘family’?

She had no siblings.
Her parents had died.
She was not married.

Dorothy had a sister Marjorie, and a brother Wilfred .

DRANSFIELD, MARJORIE mmn COLDWELL
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 237

DRANSFIELD, WILFRED mmn COLDWELL
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 438



Wilfred Dransfield
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name Wilfred Dransfield
Registration Date Oct 1944 [Nov 1944] [Dec 1944]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Birmingham
Inferred County Warwickshire
Spouse Hilda M Phesie
Volume Number 6d
Page number 321


Wilfred and Hilda had two children - a daughter born 1947, and a son born 1950, both in Northampton. As they are both living, I'm not posting their names here.

The son and daughter both married, and they each have two children.


Marjorie appears to have married (Hollingworth) in Wiltshire in 1938, and died in Lincoln in 1989.
She and her husband had a son and a daughter, born in Caistor in the early 1940s.

The son married and had a son.
I don't see any definite marriage or death for the daughter - too many people with the same name, if she didn't use all her middle initials.

I assume you know about the Hollingworth family!

Sorry one more thing. Are either of you able to find out if Betty had any family when she committed suicide?

Dear Maddie and Erika, I am sincerely grateful for the time you have taken to fill in my family tree. As you say it is a tragic story and one which is now ringing bells with me from discussions with family relatives. I am out of touch doing family history research and appreciate all your advice. Kind regards, Will Hollingworth.

????
Percy
County Cheshire
Last name Hill
Volume 10A
Sex Male
Page 883
Birth year 1888
Country England
Age 68
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 1
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1956
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District West Cheshire

) Dorothy I
County Cheshire
Last name Hill
Volume 10A
Sex Female
Page 275
Birth year 1903
Country England
Age 62
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 4
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1965
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District Crewe

Name Betty Marjorie Hill
Gender Female
Death Age 43
Birth Date abt 1924
Residence Place 02 Mossford-Avenue, Crewe
Death Date Abt 1967
Obituary Date 8 Jun 1967
Obituary Place Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Newspaper Title Nantwich Chronicle

She thought she had cancer because her mother had died with it. She put her head in a gas oven................the PM showed she was perfectly healthy with no trace of cancer..

How sad..................

Oops, sorry Maddie. Just edited my 1939 to show FMP which is far superior to Ancestry which I'd posted earlier