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In May you said you didn't have Charles and Sarah's marriage cert.
Have you obtained it since then?

It would give you his father's name (if he knew it) and we could perhaps then discover his exact date of birth.

Charles's father was John Jones and his mother was Catherine Price. We've found their marriage cert and they are on the censuses with the children, one of whom is Charles.

Annie

Oh yes, sorry, I see that's been answered before.

His birth cert is the next thing, then, for his DOB. (Though might not help, as age stated at death is only as accurate as the informant's knowledge.)

Already posted:

JONES, CHARLES mmn PRICE
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 505

I just had a digital copy of Charles's birth cert.

Born on 10 December 1875 at 5, Catherine Street, Aberdare.
Father John Jones, mother Catherine Jones, formerly Price.

The interesting thing is, he's just Charles, no James but he certainly appears later as Charles James.

Annie

Posting what I find.....

Name Charles Jones
Gender Male
Departure Age 31
Birth Date abt 1874
Departure Date 29 Jul 1905
Departure Port Scotland
Ship Name Sicilian
Shipping Line Allan Line And State Line
Search Ship Database
Destination Port Montreal, Canada

Name Charles Jones
Gender Male
Departure Age 30
Birth Date abt 1877
Departure Date 13 Jun 1907
Departure Port England
Ship Name Southwark
Shipping Line Dominion Line
Destination Port Quebec, Canada

Name Charles Jones
Gender Male
Departure Age 30
Birth Date abt 1877
Departure Date 1 Aug 1907
Departure Port England
Ship Name Ottawa
Shipping Line Dominion Line
Destination Port Quebec, Canada

Now that's very interesting, thank you. It fits in with the dates we have for him. We know his wife "remarried" in 1908 and those dates would fit in with the last child's birth. I'll look closely at those but I know from experience that records in Canada are exceedingly difficult to access.

Annie

To add to the confusion, Charles's daughter, Doris, has her parents named at her baptism as James and Sarah Jones, not Charles.

Annie

Unfortunately, there were lots of Charles Jones-es born around 1875-ish, and without exact DOB or other definite ID info on emigration or other records, it's impossible to pinpoint the right man , whether in Canada, Australia or elsewhere.

Re the suggested emigration records above:

The man who travelled on the "Southwark" in 1907 is not "your" Charles.

He was a brick-layer, not a miner .
He was travelling with his wife Rose L Jones, and their 2-year-old child WC Jones.

Charles Jones
in the Canada, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name Charles Jones
Gender Male
Nationality English
Marital Status Married
Arrival Age 30
Birth Date abt 1877
Arrival Date 23 Jun 1907
Arrival Port Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Final Destination Shields
Ship Southwark
Occupation Bricklayer


Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Davies Rose Lillie Martley 6c 487
Jones Charles Richard Martley 6c 487

His father was Thomas Jones, tailor.

They are together on the 1901 census, in Hillhampton, Worcestershire.


From a later travel record (1923) the child was Wilfred.

??
JONES, WILFRED CHARLES mmn DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 727

The man who travelled on the "Ottawa" in 1907 - he's not your Charles , either.

From the image of the travel record, he was a joiner, and was travelling with his wife Marguerite and their child Charles A Jones, aged 7 months.

Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%)
Collis Margaret Annie Wandsworth 1d 1204
COLLIS Margarett Annie Wandsworth 1d 1204
Jones Charles Wandsworth 1d 1204


JONES, CHARLES ALFRED mmn COLLIS
GRO Reference: 1907 M Quarter in WANDSWORTH Volume 01D Page 719

The man who travelled on the "Sicilian" in 1905 was a farmer, and was travelling alone, from Glasgow.
The travel record gives no other information about him.

Charles had several criminal records for various offences before his marriage and was an army deserter. I'm wondering if he used the name James to try to avoid the long arm of the law, even resorting to emigrating.

Annie

A military record on FMP for a Charles Jones born Aberdare gives his age as 23yrs 0 months on 3rd March 1898

Service number 1621.....is this your man?

Address 36 George Street...and he was single

Unfortunately, it is literally only a record of his attestation..............no other useful info

I might have had a big breakthrough here but I'm trying not to get too excited. Charles's sister, Mary Ann Jones, married William Thomas on September 30th 1875 in Maryborough, Queensland, Australia. I found the marriage cert. Her parents are John Jones and Catherine Price and he is a mason. Someone on Ancestry has attached a story saying Mary Ann met William on board ship on the way to Australia and the captain married them. When they arrived in Australia, they had another marriage in a register office. Mary Ann celebrated her 90th birthday with a party given by the Salvation Army League. The person for whom I'm doing the tree has always had family in the Salvation Army as he himself has always been. Mary Ann died in 1953, aged 96. Could this be the connection with Charles I've been looking for?

Annie

Unless Charles was a witness to the marriage, or is listed as a guest at the birthday party, I'm not sure how this helps to find him.

Someone has a tree on Ancestry with all the information about Mary Ann. I've sent them a message with what I know in the hope they can shed some light on what happened to Charles. If they know nothing I'll be no worse off but I thought it was worth a shot. In this game it's often the straws you clutch at that give you the firmest handles.

Annie

Hope you get a helpful response

Does the Ancestry tree include all the children of John & Catherine?

The tree has various census entries for Mary Ann listing her siblings and parents. I also have those.

Annie

That tree on Ancestry has no information about Charles, other than saying he was born in 1876 (wrong) in Aberdare, and showing him in 1881 and 1891.

It doesn't have his marriage or anything about him after 1891, so contacting the tree "owner" is unlikely to help, unfortunately.

I'm hoping that any information they may have may give us some leads. If not, then there's nothing lost. It's still giving my friend familial contacts of which he has none and he's very happy to find any contacts, no matter how distant. I'll let you know if I have a reply.

Annie

The lady in Australia sent me a message. She doesn't have any more information on Charles other than what we have but she's going to check the Western Australia bmds and any other relevant records. Mary Ann settled in Western Australia.

It occurred to me that, as Charles had a few criminal records to his name and was an army deserter, he may well have changed his name to escape either the long arm of the law or his marriage. If this is the case we'll probably never find him.

Annie