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I'm sorry Jacqueline but I disagree on one point.

A shipwright is not the same as a 'Carpenter' BUT is extremely similar to a 'Ship's Carpenter'

It was more usual for a ship's carpenter to sail on board the ship and carry out his skills there along with other jobs as part of the crew whereas a Shipwright was usually based on land and transferred those skills to not only repairing ships when they came in for repair but also building new ones.

Many ships carpenters left the sea when they married and had families and became shipwrights.

Dea x

However both trades work in wood and we are talking about 1860s and it wasn't his father who wrote on a certificate it was Thomas so he wouldn't necessarily understand the difference between the trades, so to him shipwright with someone who works with wood on ships ie ships carpenters. people are recorded as being engineers on the census forms but in actual fact they are mechanics or operators of machines.

Hi All Thanks for the help you have give me. I in Ancestry & FMP but I a brick wall with John Thompson and son Thomas.
Here is what I have:
I am tracing my maternal line and my great, great grandfather was Thomas Thompson who was born possibly in Maryport, Cumberland in 1853 and in 1881 he married Sarah Dransfield from Ashton, Lancashire.
Thomas died on 28 Feb 1916 in Bolton. At the time of death he was the landlord of King William Inn, Bromley Cross, Bolton. I'm trying to find his birth date so I can identify his mother. I have not been able to find Thomas Thompson until he was on the 1881 census.
1881 Census in Ashton Under Lyne, age 28, birthplace Maryport, Cumbria
1891 Census in Ashton Under Lyne, age 39, birthplace Oldham, Lancashire
1901 Census in Oldham , age 48, birthplace Maryport, Cumbria
1911 Census in Oldham, age 59, birthplace Liverpool, Lancashire
Thomas Thompson, landlord at the Rising Sun, Knowles Lane, Altedge, Ashton under Lyne from 1890-95.
Thomas Thompson, landlord 1903-09 Henry Hunt Public House, 12, Brunswick Street, Oldham
Thomas Thompson, landlord 1911 Lion Hotel, 11 Sussex Street, Oldham.
Thomas Thompson became landlord of “King William IV”, Turton on 3 March 1913 until his death 28 February 1916, when the licence was transferred to his wife Sarah Margaret effective from 1 May 1916.
On Thomas’ 1881 marriage certificate it states that his father was called John Thompson and his occupation was a ship’s carpenter. He would have been born in 1818 also in Maryport. I can find no other record for his father.
From my research I know that John wasn’t married to Mary Bell, Fanny Dorat, Elizabeth Abbott, Margaret Brown, Sarah Wicks Softley. But I don’t know his wife’s name.
Can anyone suggest how to find more info on John & son Thomas Thompson?

Info on a marriage cert regarding a 'father' is not necessarily truthful. Many 'fathers' were invented to save face..............

Thomas was a Cotton Carder lodging at 31 West Street, Lees, when he married.

Info on first page, but having it here saves looking back

Link to other thread - also posted on P1.

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348829

His name at birth may not have been Thompson............or even Thomas.

For info..........Maryport came under COCKERMOUTH registration district

Also...be flexible regarding his birth year - he may not have been certain how old he was.

Don’t forget that compulsory birth registrations didn’t come in until 1875.

Even a baptism won’t be too reliable unless the register has the birth dates added. Always a good find - though rare.

Maryport baptisms are on FMP.....not that I think they will give you any answers, TBH

David
Please will you clarify why you think the father John Thompson was born in 1818 in Maryport, as stated in your 11.26 post?

Thanks for replies.
I didn't know about compulsory birth regn date.

I'll check again the Maryport baptisms.

Re Maryport birth of John Thompson - I'm not sure where this came from. I've had a look at my records and can't find anything. I will delete that reference. There was a John Thompson a carpenter and I think I must have confused him.


Could you let me know, is this the way I should reply to reply to comments?

Yes, David, please use ‘add reply’ so all can see

???? Is this the one you're thinking of?
This was posted on your other thread, on 22 Jan 2015, at 17: 39 and 17:51

John Thompson
in the 1851 England Census
Name John Thompson
Age 33
Estimated Birth Year abt 1818
Relation Head
Spouse's Name Fanny Thompson
Gender Male
Where born Maryport, Cumberland, England
Civil parish Maryport
Town Maryport
County/Island Cumberland
Country England
Registration District Cockermouth
Sub-registration district Workington
ED, institution, or vessel 10e
Neighbors
Household schedule number 55
Piece 2435
Folio 595
Page number 12
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Thompson 33 Head - SHIPS CARPENTER
Fanny Thompson 36 Wife
John Thompson 3 Son
Mary I Thompson 1 Daughter
John Nattres 22 Visitor


BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE A SON NAMED THOMAS :

John Thompson
in the 1861 England Census
Name John Thompson
Gender Male
Age 41
Relation Head
Estimated Birth Year 1820
Spouse's Name Fanney Thompson
Where born Maryport, Cumberland, England
Civil parish Birkenhead
Ecclesiastical parish Holy Trinity
Town Birkenhead
County/Island Cheshire
Country England
Registration District Birkenhead
Sub-registration district Birkenhead
ED, institution, or vessel 12
Neighbors
Household schedule number 12
Piece 2641
Folio 103
Page number 4
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Thompson 41 Head
Fanney Thompson 46 Wife
John Thompson 13 Son
Mary F Thompson 11 Daughter
Martha A Thompson 8 Daughter
George Wilson 24 Visitor
Margaret Wilson 19 Visitor
Samuel Wornell 24 Lodger
William Goodman 18 Lodger

ArgyllGran
Yes i think it was that one as he was a ships carpenter. Since then i checked a few of the possible wiives and families and they are listed at the foot of my message.

Unless you can find Thomas on a census with family, you can’t possibly have any idea of who his parents were. Sorry, but one has to be realistic. He may well have lied when he married to avoid admitting he was illegitimate - it happened a lot.
There is no apparent birth registration and his name isn’t among the Maryport baptisms on FMP.
Of course, his name at birth may not have been the one he used from 1881 onwards, and his birthplace could have been anywhere

This may be the same John as above?


Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1835-1857

First name(s) John
Piece number 255
Last name Thompson
Date range 1845-1854
Birth year 1819
Country Great Britain
Birth date 15 Nov 1819
Record set Britain, Merchant Seamen, 1835-1857
Birth place Maryport
Category Education & work
Birth county/country Cumberland
Subcategory Merchant Navy & Maritime
Archive The National Archives
Collections from Great Britain, UK None
Series BT113

He was a carpenter who first went to sea in 1842. This was issued in Liverpool 30/11/1850. He was 5' 9 3/4"

For INFO only
Deaths Mar 1916 (>99%)
Thompson Thomas 63 Bolton 8c 519


Image of 1881 marriage cert shows he said he was 28 years old on April 17th

If this is him in 1891, the birthplace is quite possibly laziness on the part of the enumerator

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Rising Sun, 1, Knowles Lane, Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire, England
Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 39 1852 Licenced victualler Oldham, Lancashire, England
Sarah Thompson Wife Married Female 37 1854 - Oldham, Lancashire, England
George Thompson Son - Male 9 1882 - Oldham, Lancashire, England
Harold Thompson Son - Male 5 1886 - Oldham, Lancashire, England

John Thompson is a very common name.

Ancestry suggests this may be the baptism of the man in the 1851 and 1861 censuses above;

John Thompson
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name John Thompson
Gender Male
Baptism Date 24 Dec 1819
Baptism Place Scotch Presbyterian, Maryport, Cumberland, England
Father John Thompson
Mother Mary Bell
FHL Film Number 0590676 (RG4 210, 687), 590676


BUT there's no way to prove that, one way or the other.

I suppose it's possible that he might indeed have been Thomas's father - but only illegitimately.
And again, there's no way to prove it.

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
56, Savoy Street, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Thomas Thompson Head Married Male 48 1853 Living on own means Maryport, Cumberland, England
Sarah M Thompson Wife Married Female 48 1853 - Leeds, Lancashire, England
George H Thompson Son Single Male 19 1882 Cotton mill book keeper Lees, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth H Thompson Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Cotton reeler Lees, Lancashire, England
Harold Thompson Son - Male 15 1886 Tailors shop assistant Lees, Lancashire, England

The LEGITIMATE children of the Carpenter.....................

THOMPSON, JOHN (MMN) DORAT
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 25 Page 102
THOMPSON, MARY JANE DORAT
GRO Reference: 1849 J Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 25 Page 115
THOMPSON, MARTHA ANN DORAT
GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 406

Fanny Thompson was Frances 'Fanny' Dorat. I've checked her tree and it isn't my family.
I requested Thomas Thompson's Will, about a month ago. I'm hoping that this might mention relatives.
I've seen the details of the merchant seaman and again looked at his tree but I don't think that they are my relatives.
The 1891 census entry is my Thomas - as you say the birth place could be an error.
The 1911 census was completed by Thomas and the birth place was Liverpool. I'm not sure if I should be just looking there instead of the other birth places mentioned in the census returns. His signature is the same on the census as on his marriage.
Mary Bell wasn't his mother as I have checked her tree.

You may have to accept that this is never going to be resolved.

The info on pre-1911 censuses was recorded by the enumerator, but GIVEN by the householder

He may not really have known where he was born - or even when.