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I am hoping that someone could help as I've been looking for a long time now and I think it may need a fresh set of eyes

Ivy Lillian Jones, according to her death record she was born on the 15/4/1909
Her eldest child George Haydn/Hayden Jones was born on the 3/3/1929 in Buckley, Clwyd. No father information on his birth certificate which I suspected as couldn't find a marriage record around that time. Family story is that the father was a John Jones who died before George was born

She then married and had 4 children with a Thomas Booth, first child Gwendoline as born in 1933 in Hawarden. Birth certificate states mother's maiden name is Jones.

I am trying to find her father's name and then where she was born but I can't seem to locate the marriage record for her marriage to Thomas Booth. I have found several census records for an Ivy Jones but without knowing who her father was and where she was born its a bit of a stab in the dark.

Can anyone out there help me with a fresh pair of eyes and a fresh brain, it would be muchly appreciated

Marriage Record Name Ivy L Jones
Year of Marriage 1968
Quarter of Marriage Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Hawarden
Registration County Flintshire
Spouse's Surname Booth
Volume Number 8A
Volume Page 981

Spouse Match: Ivy L JONES married Thomas BOOTH

Name Thomas Booth
Year of Marriage 1968
Quarter of Marriage Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Hawarden
Registration County Flintshire
Spouse's Surname Jones
Volume Number 8A
Volume Page 981

Thank you

I shouldve known to look after the children were born, especially as Ive just given the same advice to a friend who couldnt find his grandparent's marriage

she had been living with him as his wife and known as Booth which the cert will show

Name: Ivy L Booth
Spouse Surname: Booth
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1968
Registration district: Hawarden
Inferred County: Flintshire
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 981
Find Spouse: Thomas Booth


Chances are he was already married so they couldnt marry earlier

possible first marriage

Name: Thomas Booth
Spouse Surname: Jones
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1927
Registration district: Hawarden
Inferred County: Flintshire
Volume Number: 11b
Page Number: 296
Find Spouse: Rebecca Jones

?????????

Births Jun 1909 (>99%)
JONES Ivy Lilian Merthyr T. 11a 826

Thanks everyone

I did notice Ivy Lillian Jones born in Merthyr Tydfil as one of my possibles in the 1911 census but without the fathers name I couldnt be sure.

They had 4 children together (plus George Hayden) and at least 2 grandchildren before they were married, all of the children beat them up the aisle

I've ordered George Hayden's marriage certificate, he got married in Scotland, and hopefully I'll find out if he has put the name of his supposed father John Jones on that certificate

George's mrriage cert won't tell you the name of Ivy's father....I thought that was what you wanted to find out............................

"I am trying to find her father's name"

Also, any father's name on a marriage cert is open to doubt if the mother was unmarried

I am trying to find Ivy's father so I can hopefully tie down which one of my possibles on the census she is and continue further back with the line.

The reason I'm getting George's marriage certificate is two fold. Firstly just to tie up a loose end, as I don't like leaving them 'lying around'. I also have to tell all the information I find to a relation who will ask questions about family 'stories' which I might have just disproved. Also I need to confirm the name of the father of George's wife as there is some confusion over his name because I think its a case of someone being named one thing but called another.

the wedding certificate came yesterday and confirmed the suspicion that they have been 'living in sin' for at least 35yrs

i told my step mum, who is Ivy's grandaughter and she though it was hilarious and that it made her night. Apparently Ivy was a bit of a 'character' and it would be something she would do. Although we do have to keep it a bit quiet as her surviving children don't know this and she doesnt want to upset them

It's always great to have a bit of scandel in the family ;-) but did the certificate give her father's name and occupation so we can look for her on census?

Her father's name is Samuel Webster Jones born abt 1887 in Mold and he was an iron worker, I managed to find the family on the 1911 census and trying to work my way back on the others now.

There may be another 'scandal' as someone posted above her 'husband' Thomas Booth may have married a Rebecca Jones which just happens to be the name of her older sister. I know that its a common name but I've ordered that cert to be sure

I've just posted another thread as it looks like Samuel Webster Jones died sometime between 1911 and 1920 but I can't find his death. I am thinking it may be WW1 related

It may be better to keep to this one thread so research isn't duplicated. Have you tried the CWG site to see if he died in the war?

Looks likely for parents marriage:

Marriages Sep 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JENKINS Samuel Merthyr T. 11a 1183
Jones Mary Merthyr T 11a 1183
JONES Samuel Webster Merthyr T. 11a 1183
LEWIS Laura Merthyr T. 11a 1183

but not sure which bride - do you have Ivy's birth certificate?

For ref, I'm assuming this is the 1911 census you have found?

Samuel Jones
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Mold, Flintshire, Wales
Civil parish: Mold
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: 22 Alun Terrace
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 5
Estimated Marriage Year: 1906
Occupation: Iron Worker Porter
Registration district: Holywell
Registration District Number: 619
Sub-registration district: Mold
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 123
Piece: 33961
Household Members: Name Age
Samuel Jones 24
Lawra Jones 24
Rebecca Jones 4
Ry Lilian Jones 2 << could be Ivy, it's definitely not Ry but a big ink-splot on image
Lenis Samuel Jones 1

Which would probably mean Samuel married Laura Lewis.

added, but with such common names (and no birth for Samuel Webster Jones that I can see) you may need their marriage certificate to get any further back.

I'm going to post the info I posted on the other thread below

I've found their marriage and the 1911 census you posted. The one you posted I saw on Ancestry but I got the free credits for the FMP website and they transcribed the names properly.

I did try the CWG website but due to the common name there were a lot of possibilities. I think I might have to go for a census hunt for him but as he got married in 1906 it means I'll have to guess who his parents were as I can't rely on him living with Laura or where he is living as it looks like he may be an 'economic migrant.

"I'm now trying to find the death of her father Samuel Webster Jones. According to the 1911 census he was born around 1887 in Mold, North Wales. He married a Laura Lewis in the Merthyr Tydfil registration district in 1906 and they had 3 children that we know of Rebecca Jones 1907, Ivy Lillian Jones 1909 and Samuel Lewis Jones (also known as Lewis Samuel Jones) 1910

Laura Jones nee Lewis married a Samuel Antrobus in 1920 and they went on to have 3 children themselves. So somewhere in the 9 years between 1911 and 1920 Samuel Webster Jones died. The biggest reason for his death could be WW1 but due to his name, even though he has an unusual middle name which we think is his mother's maiden name, I can't seem to find a record that definitely matches.

Any ideas out there??"

There are no Samuel Webster Jones or plain Samuel Webster's registered in Flintshire 1880-90, so I think the marriage certificate to Laura may be needed.

I've also looked at CWG and the national archives, but no trace of a Samuel Webster Jones on either site so not sure if that was his real name.

I'm going to order their marriage cert, I did find a Samuel W Jones in the WW1 casualties list but that was with the London Regiment and as he was a Iron Worker he might have been in a reserved occupation

More waiting for certs for me then :-( :-(

You may be right about him being in a reserved occupation, but then why can't you find a death - and you say Laura re-marrried in 1920? A retorical question, just putting out thoughts..

I think his death might be recorded as Samuel Jones without his middle name. If that is the case then without ordering every death cert of a Samuel Jones between 1911 and 1920 then I will never really find it