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maybe the next step on the Lethbridge side would be to buy the marriage certificate for Frank Riggs and Ann to see exactly who she was, her father's name should help a lot. Was she Elizabeth's sister? We know Elizabeth Briers father was Peter.

It was illegal to marry dead wife's sister but it happened. It confused me on my tree (especially with the name of Jones!) for years until some kind soul on here found a record which pointed me in that direction. Wife dies & within a year marries sister to have someone to look after the small children.

Wow, great response, thank you all so much, it has all been very useful and allowed me to add numerous people to the tree.

It did take a while to read through it all and try to understand the names changes (Ann/Elizabeth) and ages but got an idea about it.

Also to confirm, apparently there were Irish family members, so this could be right with some records I found.

Not saying I'm done but a lot further than I was, thanks again everyone. :-D

looks like it is possible Elizabeth & an infant daughter both died in 1889

Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
Lethbridge Elizabeth 34 Prescot 8b 477

Deaths Dec 1889 (>99%)
Lethbridge Elizabeth 0 Prescot 8b 523

edit - this original post deleted as I got it wrong and edits made it confusing so will try again

Elizabeth Lethbridge (formerly Briers) died 1889

Ann Briers marries John Robert Lethbridge in 1890

John Robert Lethbridge died 1891

Ann LETHBRIDGE (formerly BRIERS) marries Frank Riggs in 1892

the Sarah Ann Lethbridge b1882 died 1884

Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
and http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/indexp.html
as well as FreeBMD


Marriage: 13 May 1877 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
John Robert Lethbridge - above age Miner Bachelor of Parr
Elizabeth Briers - above age Spinster of Parr
Groom's Father: John Lethbridge, Labourer
Bride's Father: Peter Briers, Miner
Witness: Robert Harrison, (X); Ellen Harrison, (X)
Married by Banns by: A.A.Nunn
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1878, Page 230, Entry 460
Source: LDS Film 1849640

Baptism: 29 Sep 1878 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Edward Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 12 Aug 1878
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 278, Entry 2217
Source: LDS Film 1849688

Baptism: 24 Sep 1882 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Sarah Ann Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 7 Aug 1882
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 329, Entry 2632
Source: LDS Film 1849688

Deaths Dec 1884 (>99%)
Lethbridge Sarah Ann 2 Prescot 8b 560

Baptism: 29 Aug 1886 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 4 Aug 1886
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 382, Entry 3049
Source: LDS Film 1849688

Baptism: 29 Sep 1889 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 17 Sep 1889
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 410, Entry 3278
Source: LDS Film 1849649


Deaths Sep 1889 (>99%)
Lethbridge Elizabeth 34 Prescot 8b 477

Deaths Sep 1891 (>99%)
Lethbridge John Robert 37 Prescot 8b 464

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RIGGS Frank BRIERS Ann Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/50/145
RIGGS Frank LETHBRIDGE Ann Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/50/145
[The GRO index for 1892q4 only lists Ann as Ann Lethbridge]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1909
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LETHBRIDGE Charlotte TAYLOR Fred Irlam St John Salford C5/3/48
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=EUROPE
You want England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910
This entry's not indexed yet, so browse images - since it's entry # 48, so you want image # 24
[John Robert LETHBRIDGE (collier) is deceased - Sarah Ann is a witness]
[EDIT - just corrected JRL's surname - apologies for earlier brain-freeze]

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LETHBRIDGE Sarah A BARNES James Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/85/20
[So either a rego office marr, or a marr the registrar would have to attend, e.g., an RC marr - before 1898, he would have to attend all non-conformists marrs]


1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John M. LETHBRIDGE Head M Male 27 Heavetree, Devon, England Coal Miner
Elisabeth LETHBRIDGE Wife M Female 23 Windle, Lancashire, England Wife Of Miner
Edward LETHBRIDGE Son U Male 2 Parr, Lancashire, England Scholar
John W. LETHBRIDGE Son U Male 9 m Parr, Lancashire, England
Harry LETHBRIDGE Boarder U Male 26 Heavetree, Devon, England Coal Miner
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 217 Park Road
Census Place Parr, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341894
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3737 / 125
Page Number 30


%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

It looks to me like after John's wife died, he took up with Ann who was probably some rellie of Elizabeth, maybe a sister or cousin.
Sarah Ann was Ann's daur, named after a predeceased half-sister.
It looks like John & Ann didn't marry, and possibly this is the reason for apparent uncertainty about Ann's surname when she marries Frank.
(If Ann were Eliz's sister, John could not legally marry her at this time.)


EDIT I see Ann's added some of my hits while I was making breakfast, but I've ordered mine so I'll leave them - sorry for the duplication.

Marriage: 13 May 1877 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
John Robert Lethbridge - above age Miner Bachelor of Parr
Elizabeth Briers - above age Spinster of Parr
Groom's Father: John Lethbridge, Labourer
Bride's Father: Peter Briers, Miner
Witness: Robert Harrison, (X); Ellen Harrison, (X)
Married by Banns by: A.A.Nunn
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1878, Page 230, Entry 460
Source: LDS Film 1849640

Baptisms: 27 Jan 1856 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Briers - Child of Peter Briers & Margaret
Born: 30 Nov 1855
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 65, Entry 516
Source: LDS Film 1849649

did Elizabeth just decide to change her name to Ann??????? EDIT - no as wrong age

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1877
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BRIERS Elizabeth LETHBRIDGE John R St Peters Parr St Helens C3/1/460

Deaths Sep 1891 (>99%)
Lethbridge John Robert 37 Prescot 8b 454 (or 464)

Frank Riggs marriage to Ann showing she was at some time Briers or her fathers name was Briers

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
RIGGS * Frank BRIERS Ann Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/50/145
RIGGS * Frank LETHBRIDGE Ann Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/50/145

also a Sarah Ann to the same parents but born 1882

Baptisms: 24 Sep 1882 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Sarah Ann Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 7 Aug 1882
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 329, Entry 2632
Source: LDS Film 1849649

going back to the Lethbridges of Jax's 1901 census. I can only see 1 Charlotte Lethbridge birth ion freebmd (sep qtr 1886) which matching this baptism BUT the mother's name is Elizabeth!

Baptisms: 29 Aug 1886 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 4 Aug 1886
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 382, Entry 3049

and Edward

Baptisms: 29 Sep 1878 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Edward Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 12 Aug 1878
Abode: Parr
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 278, Entry 2217
Source: LDS Film 1849649

Baptisms: 29 Sep 1889 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Lethbridge - Child of John Robert Lethbridge & Elizabeth
Born: 17 Sep 1889
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1896, Page 410, Entry 3278
Source: LDS Film 1849649

Not sure about that birth posted for James Barnes - he had an older brother John on the 1891 census, but he wasn't on the 1881 census.

James (28, labourer) & Margaret(19) were at 65 Victoria St, St Helens, parish Windle, in 1881 with no children.

The Wilsons were at 4 Lord St, Windle, and must have come over from Ireland after 1876, their earlier children were born Ireland. I wonder if Margaret Barnes was their daughter?

Dea, you're on the right track. Louisa was married to James Wilson on the 1911 census - James Wilson(c1882) was at the same address as James Barnes on the 1891 census - 27 Gerard Street.

Patrick Wilson 53 born Ireland, chemical labourer
Mary 46, Ireland
Patrick 12
James 9
Peter 4
(Children born St Helens)

Ahhh! - Now we may be getting somewhere Flip !!

One of the witnesses to James's wedding was a Louisa Wilson (though it is a very common name) - I have followed her a little way but decided that she was the wife of a friend of James who works in the same trade as him ! - I will explore further!

Thanks,

Dea x

Another alternative, Stephen may have been his stepfathers name - there's this marriage at Prescot reg office:

Margaret Barnes to Stephen thomas Hardman Q4, 1897 8b1157

according to Lancashirebmd it was also recorded as Margaret Wilson, so I would assume she was a widow.

I just don't know Flip,

I looked at that one also so I went back to look at the army records.

They certainly do say 'Stephen'.......... BUT I can find no trace of him anywhere !!!

The only thing to do would be to get James birth cert which I believe is this one:

Births Sep 1881

BARNES James Prescot 8b 707

That would give both mother's and father's details.

Dea Xxx

Dea, I wonder if that army record is wrong - there's this one in 1891:

27 Gerard Street, St Helens
James Barnes 43 Chemical Labourer, Ireland
Margaret 28, Ireland
John 10
James 9
Margaret 7
Mary 4
Bridget 0

All children born St Helens

According to hs army records on Ancestry, James parents were Stephen and Margaret. He had a brother John and a sister Margaret, but I cannot seem to find them anywhere !!!

British Army WWI Pension Records 1914-1920
about James Barnes
Name: James Barnes
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Age at enlistment: 18
Birth Parish: St Helen's
Birth County: Lancashire
Document Year: 1899
Regimental Number: 5952
Regiment Name: South Lancashire Regiment
Number of images: 16


Perhaps someone else can see them ??

Dea x

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BARNES, Sarah Ann
Address: 50 Clyde St St Helens


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BARNES, James Head Married M 29 1882 Beveller Glass Trade Lancashire St Helens VIEW
BARNES, Sarah Ann Wife Married
1 years F 24 1887 Lancashire St Helens VIEW
BARNES, James Son M 0 1911 Lancashire St Helens VIEW


Wonder if she lied about her age? On the image it looks more like 21

Name: Sarah Ann Lethbridge
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1891
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 700 (click to see others on page)

1891 census - household transcription
Person: LETHBRIDGE, Charlotte
Address: 44, Gladstone Street, Eccleston, St Helens


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LETHBRIDGE, John K Head Married M 37 1854 Coal Miner
Whipton
Devonshire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Ann Wife Married F 22 1869
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Edward Son M 12 1879 Glass Works Labourer
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Charlotte Daughter F 4 1887
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Sarah A Daughter F 0 (2M) 1891
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
RIFF, John Cousin Single M 26 1865 Coal Miner
Whipton
Devonshire VIEW

1901 census - household transcription
Person: LETHBRIDGE, Sarah Ann
Address: 31, Pitt Street, St Helens


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RIGGS, Frank Head Married M 31 1870 Coal Hewer Underground
Whipton
Devonshire VIEW
RIGGS, Ann Wife Married F 33 1868
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
RIGGS, Elizabeth Daughter F 6 1895
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
RIGGS, Eliza Daughter F 3 1898
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
RIGGS, Lewis Son M 1 1900
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Charlotte Step Daughter Single F 14 1887
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LETHBRIDGE, Sarah Ann Step Daughter Single F 10 1891
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW

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