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I HAVE A BIRTH BERTIFICATE NAMING ETTIE MORRIS AS MOTHER OF ARTHUR DESMOND MORRIS 1906 IN SYDNEY AUSTRALIA. THERE IS ONLY ONE (1) ETTIE MORRIS BORN IN NSW UP UNTIL 1910. THE DETAILS OR HER BIRTH CONFIRM THAT THIS IS THE SAME ETTIE MORRIS. THE CERTIFICATE CONFIRM HER FATHER AS BEING JOHN W MORRIS.

MY DILEMMA IS IT IS SHOWN THAT SHE DIED 1888. SHE HAD A SISTER ELLIE MARY AND BROTHER ROWLAND.

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS HOW THIS CAN HAPPEN. WAS THE BIRTH MOTHER INCORRECTLY RECORDED AND SHOULD IT HAVE BEEN ELLIE WHO ,WOULD BE THE RIGHT AGE OF 17 AS SHOWN ON THE BIRTH??????????????????

ANY ASSISTANCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. YOU PEOPLE SEEM TO BE ABLE TO HELP WHEN WE ARE STUMPED.

CHEERS,
LORAINE
ADELAIDE

sorry - totally unaware caps were seen that way - will remember.

Hi

There is another Ettie Morris death:

14399/1940 MORRIS ETTIE 52 YRS W REDFERN

Would fit with birth date.

Catherine

There is this Marriage

1953/1908 MORRIS ALFRED E BOLAND ETTIE L WEST MAITLAND

Ettie's Birth
112/1882 BOLAND ETTIE L JOHN ELIZA J SYDNEY

Is this the Birth you already have ?
27942/1887 MORRIS ETTIE E JOHN W ANASTASIA MUDGEE

20871/1906 MORRIS ARTHUR D ETTIE SYDNEY

Hi Catherine,

I have requested a copy of this death certificate trying to find out which Ettie Morris this is. It has not arrived as yet. Yes the age of 52 does sound right except the family of this Ettie Morris believe it is their Ettie. Their Ettie would have been 59 and not 52 and Morris would have been her married name. Their Ettie maiden name was Boland.

My Ettie I cannot find anything about any marriage. She may have died without marrying - I just do not know.

Loraine

Hi Ingrid,

The birth details I have is 27942/1887. I believe that this is the correct one. The copy of birth I have is 20871/1906 and this is my grandfather. Unfortunately this is where the trail ends. They are mother and son.

As I never knew any of these people there is no one to ask.

This is why I have posted this request hoping that someone with a lot more experience may be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks
Loraine

Lorraine, you have seen that there is another similar birth ?

29740/1910
MORRIS ERIC P
mother ETTIE M
NEWTOWN


possibly his death

4083/1977
MORRIS ERIC PATRICK
mother ETHEL MAY


possibly meaning that Ettie was short for Ethel .... or maybe he just thought it was ..... or it's a mistranscription of Ettie .........


possibly his marriage

4516/1931
MORRIS ERIC P J
SHARP ELIZABETH
REDFERN


... same district as the 1940 Ettie Morris death ...


someone at this website has Eric Morris 1910 Tamworth NSW in their family tree ... no, that is a different one, parents William and Elizabeth

Thanks Chrissiex,

Unfortunately I do not know if there was a brother or not.
I will keep looking. If he is a brother she possibly was still not married.

Hi Loraine

Just my thoughts here feel free to correct them.

Ettie ,below, is the mother of Arthur b.1906, no Father recorded on Birth Certificate.
27942/1887 MORRIS ETTIE E JOHN W ANASTASIA MUDGEE

20871/1906 MORRIS ARTHUR D ETTIE SYDNEY

If that is right then I would doubt you will ever find the Father.

Your trail has not gone cold though, it has only split in half. You can still follow Ettie's Family.

With the following information I would say you have the wrong Ettie
Deaths
7147/1888 MORRIS ETTIE E JOHN W ANASTASIA SOFALA
Marriage
2852/1879 MORRIS JOHN WILLIAM BRENNAN ANASTASIA B COONABARABRAN

Just wondering why you are so sure you have the right Ettie, does it give her exact date of birth on Arthur's Birth Certificate?

Cheers

Hi Ingrid,

Thanks for your input. I am not looking for Arthur's father as I no idea who he might be.

I will tell you as I see my reasons for believing I have the right Ettie.
1. Arthur's birth certificate list mother Ettie Morris born The Crudine Sofala
2. Her father John W Morris co-registered the birth.
3. Her age is listed as 17 - maybe a typo or mis-transcribed and should
be 19.
4. Arthur married 3 times. On 1 of the marriage certificates he listed his
name as Arthur Daniel which is the correct name. He alway used the
middle name Desmond for some reason. He listed his occupation
farmer and place of birth Sofala.
5. He was born in Sydney. This particular marriage was bigamous and
perhaps thought he may not be caught so hence he used the birth
place of his mother. He did get caught.
6. Last but not least why did Arthur go to NZ. Ettie's sister Ellie had
moved there and married. Maybe Ellie was the one who gave birth
and because she was under the age on consent she was sent
to Sydney to have the baby and no-one should have been any the
wiser.

I honestly do not know but Sofala is a common link as is the name of her father on the birth certificate. There is only 1 Ettie Morris born in NSW that I can find anywhere.

Let me know what you think even if you think I am barking up the wrong tree.

Cheers

Hi Loraine

With this extra info I am seeing where you are coming from.

'Last but not least why did Arthur go to NZ. Ettie's sister Ellie had
moved there and married. Maybe Ellie was the one who gave birth
and because she was under the age on consent she was sent
to Sydney to have the baby and no-one should have been any the
wiser.'

If it was Ellie, and it would have been as you have a death for Ettie, then the age on the Certificate is right just the name wrong.

It was known to be done and usually the Mother or childless Aunt brought the baby up.

Cheers

Hi Ingrid,

It is a mystery and nobody alive today to tell the story.

Interestingly Arthur probably did not know the truth either if my assumption is correct. I do not know who brought him up but I am guessing his grandparents perhaps as I have pictures of him as a child always with an older man and younger child. Maybe Chrissiex is correct with Eric born 1910 to perhaps same mother. Who knows. Not Arthur as he named his first born after his mother Ettie and deserted her and a her brother the same way he was.

Cheers

History repeating itself. Makes Family history interesting/frustrating.

I think we all have at least one family member like this.

Cheers

Hi Loraine,

Just another thought, is it a possibility that Ettie E born 1887 died 1888, and that Ellie M was incorrectly transcribed, and should have been Ettie?

I noticed on the birth registration of Arthur, mothers name was only listed as Ettie, with no second initial.

????Maybe Ellie/Ettie are one of the same

Do you have these siblings as well

Reg No/Yr Surname Name Fathers Name Mothers Name District
21667/1880 Morris Walton Collins John W Anastasia Parramatta
14292/1882 Morris Grace E John W Anastasia Central Cumberland

Reg No/Yr Surname Names Spouses Surname Name District
3132/1899 Morris Walton Collins Aiken Grace Carcoar

children born to the above couple

Reg No/Yr Surname Name Fathers Name Mothers Name District
3735/1903 Morris Walton FH Walton C Grace Waterloo
29967/1906 Morris William A Walton C Grace Waterloo
9330/1899 Morris Irene GR Walton C Grace Sydney

deaths of Walton & Roland

36272/1959 Morris Walton Collins Walton Unknown Hornsby
3312/1936 Morris Roland Charles John Walton Anastasia Hornsby

179/1925 GOLDRING JONAS J [married] MORRIS ETTIE SYDNEY

Ettie GOLDRING died in 1997; Jonas Joseph died in 1989.


Ettie could also be short for Henrietta...

Maybe order the 1888 death cert to see if it is in fact Ettie or Ellie...

Seems unlikely but as you say, all the other bits of info point to it being her (Ettie) that survived.

Rowland's marriage:

6933/1906 MORRIS ROLAND C [married] DRAPER EMMA R CHATSWOOD

and his death:

3312/1936 MORRIS ROLAND CHARLES JOHN WALTON ANASTASIA HORNSBY

The Sydney Morning Herald, Thursday 20 February 1936, p.8
MORRIS-February 19, 1936, at a hospital, Roland C. Morris, dearly loved husband of Emma Morris and loving father of Beryl, Jack, Roland, William, Lillian, Ken, and Betty, aged 50 years.

Maybe you can trace a living rellie of his to see what they know about Ettie/Ellie?

Likely death of Emma:

12611/1963 MORRIS EMMA RUTH THOMAS WILLIAM RUTH CHATSWOOD

This is a THANKYOU to all who helped me with my research.

I am trying to put it all in perspective at the moment.

The death and marriage certificates I am waiting on hopefully will solve the mystery of my grandfather and who actually his mother was.

THANKS AGAIN TO YOU ALL.

Loraine