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LANCASHIRE BURNS looking for any info on John Burns b c1801 who married Hannah (poss Burrow) have names of children Christopher, John, Mary, Agnes and Hannah. All the family if from ulverston area many in flookburgh. My husband is great grandson of John Burns jnr (married to ann) but is very sketchy on any family details so have only got info off census' so far.
Admittedly trying to look for quick fix and see if some relation has already got info!!!
Any info will be of use.... Many thanks Diane

Hi Diane

There are several trees on Ancestry.co.uk with John Burns married to Hannah Burrow none of them have his parents details but do have
children one example copied below


John Burns
1799 – 1866

Hannah Burrow
1797 –

Spouse & Children

Mary Ann Burns
1832 –


Joseph Burns
1836 –

Other Spouse & Children

*

*

Ann Makereth
1836 –


John Burns
1865 –

Thomas MacKereth Burns
1867 – 1868


Edward Burns
1869 –

James Burns
1873 –


William Burns
1874 –

Hannah Mackerith Burns
1878 –


Elizabeth Burns
1879 –

Hope this is of use

This looks like it could be him

Baptisms: 11 Aug 1799 St Cuthbert, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
John Burns - son of Fardy Burns & Mary
Abode: Soutergate


KIRKBY IRELETH, a parish in the liberty of Furness, in the west or Ulverstone division of the north of the sands portion of the hundred of Lonsdale, ...

--------------------------------------------------

Probably a brother who died as an infant

Baptisms: 19 Nov 1793 St Cuthbert, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
Fardy Burns - son of Fardy Burns & Mary
Abode: Soutergate

Burial: 27 Jan 1794 St Cuthbert, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
Fardy Burns - son of Fardy Burns

This is the onlylikely marriage to Mary but it's not Burrows.

Marriage: 3 Oct 1791 St Cuthbert, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
Fardinando [sic] Burns -
Mary James -
Married by Banns


Fardy Burns appears to be a popular name in Kirby Ireleth so you would need to check it's the right one.

The problem with using trees from ancestry, or other people's research in general, is that you do NOT know how thorough they have been in confirming details.

You really need to double and triple check every single person and every single step taken.

Do NOT just accept what anyone else gives you, or any tree that you might find.





sylvia

for refernece .... and confirmation

Is this YOUR John Burns in 1851?

1851 Census

Name: John Burns
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1800
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Hannah Burns
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Lower Allth, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Lower Holker
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Ulverstone
Sub-registration district: Cartmel

John Burns 51 Ag Lab
Hannah Burns 56 b.ca 1795, Betham, Westmorland
John Burns 26 b.ca 1825, Flookburgh, Lower Holker, Lancs, Ag Lab
Agness Burns 20 b.ca 1831, Flookburgh, Labourer
Hannah Burns 17 b.ca 1834, Flookburgh

Address:- Flookburgh




Because there is also ANOTHER John Burns, born in Kirkby Ireleth, on the 1851:-

Name: John Burns
Age: 51
Estimated birth year: abt 1800
Relation: Head
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Kirkby Ireleth
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Ulverstone
Sub-registration district: Dalton

John Burns 51 Farmer of 15 acres
Betty Burns 59 b.ca 1792, Kirkby Ireleth, Sister, House Servant
William Burns 46 b.ca 1805, Kirkby Ireleth, Brother, Farm Servant
Mary A Helm 16 b.ca 1835, Kirkby Ireleth, Niece, House Servant


All show Not Married



sylvia

Thanks everyone, good point Sylvia about using other peoples research am looking into info to double check it. I do have skeleton info i know to be fact which i have done myself
Karen, I have some of that info already but not sure how/if some of the others fit in,,, (may be that families just have same first names and were born similar time!)
Mike I don't have any of that info so not sure if its the right people.
Sylvia, the 1st John Burns you listed in 1851 is defo the right family have checked through census' and can track everyone from 1841 through to 1901 and 1911 when my husbands grandad moved to the wirral, This is the family I am looking into. Found Cartmel Parish records online and have matched some baptisms etc up with info i have but lots of gaps remain!
Thanks again
Diane

The online records for Cartmel are incomplete, I have been researching a family from the area and had to use the local records office transcripts for most of the information.

If you like, I'll take a look - was intending to go there later on as it happens, as I am snowed out of work today!

Mac

That would be fantastic thanks Mac.
Info I am most interested in is Who is the wife of John Burns (son of John and Hannah) Know her first name is Ann but stuck after that and just to confirm their childrens names (had lots of suggestions!)
Also have no info on John Burns snr (b circa 1800) none of the childrens birth records i can find online name mothers maiden name and no idea if he had any siblings.
The family didn't seem to move round much judging by census records, 1891 main street flookburgh, 1871 lower holker and 1841 flookburgh, many addresses not included on other census just village name 'flookburgh'.
Would really appreciate any info you could find out for me.
let me know if you need more info
Thanks again...
Diane x

Was John junior a fisherman ?

Is this the family ?

1881
John BURNS Head M Male 56 Allithwaite, Lancashire, England Fisherman
Ann BURNS Wife M Female 45 Natland, Westmorland, England
John BURNS Son U Male 16 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England Fisherboy
Edward BURNS Son Male 11 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England Scholar
James BURNS Son Male 8 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England Scholar
William BURNS Son Male 6 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England Scholar
Hanah BURNS Daur Female 3 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth BURNS Daur Female 2 Flookburgh, Lancashire, England
Ann ROBINSON Visitor Female 9 Neston In, York, England Scholar


Dwelling Flookburgh
Census Place Lower Holker, Lancashire, England

Possible birth certs for children

Births Mar 1870
Burns Edward = Ulverston 8e 705


Births Dec 1872
Burns James - Ulverston 8e 713


Births Dec 1874
Burns William - Ulverston 8e 729

Births Dec 1877
Burns Hannah - Ulverston 8e 757


Births Jun 1878
Burns Elizabeth Jane - Ulverston 8e 844

Who is with John on the 1861 census - I can't see him? I think I have him with wife Ann & a couple of step-children on 1871 census - if it is the right person I think she was Ann Mackreth from Natland, Westmorland, as the children have that surname.

Hi Mac I have john (1825) in Watery lane ulverston as lodger in 1861 his job is engine driver? not sure if this is right tho! not got john snr yet tho.


Mike thanks they are the family.... cheers for info

Diane

Hi Mac using the info you've just given had a little dig round...John on 1871 with Ann MacKreth looks like right one... on the 1881 census the 2 step children have surname Burns which is where i think i've been thrown out!
Found one entry in1861 for John snr... John and wife Hannah living as father and mother in law to head of house? cant really read entry but heads name looks like edmund wilson???? wife margaret and son john. only prob is john and hannah didn't seem to have daughter margaret?
Very confused!

Hi Diane,

I've had a quick delve into the Cartmel record transcripts:

John illegit s of Mary Burns of Allithwaite poorhouse born 5/6/1802, christened 14/7/1802. There was no other John christened around this time. It appears he had a sister:
Mary illegit d of Mary Burns of Allithwaite born 2/8/1804, ch 16/9/1804.

No trace of his mothers christening at Cartmel, but looks like she died when they were very young, there is a burial 29/10/1805 for Mary Burns, Sp. of Allithwaite age 27.

The only marriage around the right time for John is:
John Burns ba. husb & Hannah Thornborrow(or Thornbarrow) widow botp by banns on 25/11/1823, witnesses Joseph Grisdale & Philip Birkett.

If this is the correct marriage, Hannah was born Borrow and married Christopher Thornborrow a seaman (botp) by licence 24/9/1815, witnesses Jeney Borrow & William Fell. Neither of their christenings at Cartmel.

2 children found to them, Isabella 7/1/1816 (of Holly-well, fisherman) and Christopher 18/3/1821 (of Allithwaite, seaman). Father Christopher buried 18/1/1822 Cartmel.

Looks like John Burns was buried 10/6/1866 (age 67) and Hannah 9/4/1871 (age 77).

Of John & Hannah's children on the 1841 census, the only christenings found are:
John 23/1/1825
Agnes 11/7/1830
Hannah 21/7/1833
No sign of a christening for Christopher (c1826) or Mary (c1829), nor did I find any other children.

The marriages after 1837 aren't transcribed, so I couldn't easily check them, think you would need to do some research on Freebmd to try to get possible dates for the children's marriages.

Mac

I think this my be your Hannah, but the name is Burrow? It's a possibility.

HANNAH BURROW

19 JAN 1795

Christening: 16 APR 1795 Beetham, Westmorland, England

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JOHN BURROW Family
Mother: MARGT.


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Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.


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Source Information:
Batch Number: 7026517
Sheet: 53
Source Call No.: 0538627 Type: Film

Thanks so much for your worK! not going to find family fortune with that lot though ha ha!

Think I can solve the 1861 census for John & Hannah. There is a christening 16/8/1818 at Beetham (Milnthorpe is in this parish) for Margaret Thornborough, d of Christopher and Hannah. She married Edward Wilson 6/2/1841 at Cartmel, hence she hadn't shown up on the 1841 census with her mother & stepfather.

Don't know if you know this area, but Beetham is across the sands from Cartmel and I've found families moving between the 2 areas on a regular basis, especially if they were fishermen.

Fantastic! you are a super sleuth! don't know area at all so wouldn't know how common it is to move around or even how far it is... the family is certainly full of twists and turns isn't it?
Thank you (again!)

Must have missed this in the Cartmel records, but it ties in with his death & likely age. It's probably only half an hour walk across the sands - so long as the tide is out!

CHRISTR THORNBORROW Pedigree
Male


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Event(s):
Birth: 09 FEB 1794

Christening: 20 JUN 1794 Cartmel, Lancashire, England

Death: 18 JAN 1822

Burial:


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Parents:
Father: CHRISTR THORNBORROW Family
Mother: ANNE HOW


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Messages:
Form submitted by a member of the LDS Church. The form lists the submitter's name and address and may include source information. The address may be outdated. Details vary. To find the form, you must know the batch and sheet number.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Batch Number: 8510630
Sheet: 41
Source Call No.: 1395992 Type: Film