Find Ancestors

Hi everyone,
please can anyone help me I am trying to trace my GGG Grandads parents. In 1861 (on a report from the poorhouse) they are listed as a James Brodie -retired Baker- (at that time residing with his son-in-law a Mr Hamilton (tobacconist in Glasgow)
and a Janet Purves dec.
I have got the 1841 census listing James and Janet aged 50 and their children Peter - 18, Thomas 15, George12, Agnes 10, David and James aged 8.
The 1851 census lists James, Janet ,George, Agnes, and David
I have got Janets baptism 18/6/1791 in Innerwick East Lothian her parents are listed as Robert Purves and Agnes Underwood.
Agnes died 18/9/1820 in North Berwick.
Can anyone help me trace James and Janets marriage, James Birth/death also any info for Robert Purves and Agnes Purves ms Underwood.
I have tried the IGI and Scotlands People.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks

This looks like there marriage.
Groom's Name: James Brodie
Bride's Name: Janet Purves

Marriage Date: 24 Aug 1810
Marriage Place: Edinburgh Parish,Edinburgh,Midlothian,Scotland

Bride's Father's Name: Robert Purves

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M11983-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
Source Film Number: 1066690
Reference Number:
Collection: Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910

Hi Alison,
Thank you so much for helping me find this I was starting to worry that no-one had replied to my post which is very unusual for this board!
I dont understand why it didnt show when I searched SP.
This has happened b4 on SP one time it doesnt show then boom it magically appears!
Fingers crossed that sum1 can help with the rest of my post. Once again many thanks
Linda

1861 Census for Ref.

Name: James Brodie
Age: 71
Estimated birth year: abt 1790
Relationship: Father-in-Law
Gender: Male
Where born: Nork Beriorf, Haddingtonshire
Registration Number: 644/6
Registration district: Blythswood
Civil Parish: Glasgow Barony
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 60 Hill St
Occupation: Retired Baker
ED: 39
Household schedule number: 10
Line: 22
Roll: CSSCT1861_105
Household Members: Name Age
George Hamilton 42 Tobacconist, b. Glasgow
Agnes Hamilton 29 Wife, b.Nork Beriorf, Haddingtonshire
James Brodie 71
Ann Livingston 17 Servant

Linda, which of these have you looked at on SP, please?

1 1856 BRODIE JAMES BRODIE M 61 BLAIRGOWRIE /PERTH 335/00 0007
2 1856 BRODIE JAMES M 67 RUTHERGLEN BURGH GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 654/01 0024
3 1861 BRODIE JAMES STEVENSON M 69 STRONSAY /ORKNEY 031/00 0008
4 1863 BRODIE JAMES MACCRAW M 69 PORT OF MENTEITH /PERTH 388/00 0016
5 1864 BRODIE JAMES SMITH M 72 AVOCH /ROSS AND CROMARTY 059/00 0008
6 1864 BRODIE JAMES ROBERTSON M 76 KETTINS /ANGUS 294/00 0011
7 1864 BRODIE JAMES KELLOCHAN M 75 ST GEORGE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN 685/01 1068
8 1867 BRODIE JAMES M 72 GLASGOW CENTRAL DISTRICT GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/01 1068
9 1869 BRODIE JAMES M 78 CRAIL /FIFE 417/00 0022
10 1869 BRODIE JAMES M 76 SORBIE /WIGTOWN 897/00 0013
11 1877 BRODIE JAMES M 90 GREENOCK OLD OR WEST /RENFREW 564/03 0091
12 1879 BRODIE JAMES M 85 CALTON (GLASGOW) GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/04 0173

Just to help a little... not too sure if you have these baptism records?

name: Robert Purves
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 28 Oct 1771
baptism/christening place: , SWINTON AND SIMPRIN, BERWICK, SCOTLAND
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11755-2
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067903


name: Thomas Purves
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 31 Jul 1774
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067850


name: George Purves
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 15 May 1777
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067850


name: Hugh Purves
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 17 Mar 1780
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067850


name: Alexander Purvis
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 27 Jul 1783
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
birth date: 21 Jul 1783
father's name: Robert Purvis
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067850


name: David Purves
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 12 Jan 1787
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
birth date: 04 Jan 1787
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-VR
source film number: 1067850


name: Janet Purves
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 18 Jun 1791
baptism/christening place: , INNERWICK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
father's name: Robert Purves
mother's name: Agnes Underwood
indexing project (batch) number: C11711-5
system origin: Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1067850


Tracey x

Hi RG and Tracey,
I have just logged in was at a class in the Mitchell Library (Glasgow) am just checking out your posts and will reply ltr. Many thanks
Linda

Hi rootgatherer,
Re- the list of James Brodie's that you asked me about what records are they
as going by the dates too late for birth/marriage I have some credits left for SP if u tell me what to look for .
Sorry if Im being a bit dense but unsure of where to look.
Many thanks.. will stay logged on for a couple of hours then will check in 2moro
Linda

Sorry Linda - they are the deaths for James Brodie born 1790 +/- 2 years. (Scotlandspeople) That's your man with his son-in-law, the tobacconist and daughter Agnes on the 1861 census in Hill Street, Glasgow. So 1 & 2 are out as we know that he was still alive in 1861 and I don't see him on the 1871 census so I would probably eliminate 11 and 12.

Forgot that you had you class tonight, I hope you are still enjoying it!

hi rootgatherer,
Sorry I didnt disappear have been searching SP ok I tried no 8 (going on the premise that on the 1861 census he was in Glasgow) this record is for a pauper -occ taylor- who died in the poorhouse so I think we can rule that one out. I dont have a lot of credits left will get more 2moro can do another couple 2nite any of the others u listed worth checking?
Do u think I shd only check Glasgow?
I found a BC for a James Brodie 30/8/1789 in Whittingehame East Lothian F James Brodie M Agnes Goutry dont know if this is the correct one as on the 1851/61 census he says he was born in Haddington North Berwick and he was married in North Berwick aaargh!!!!
RE the class yes I am really enjoying it the records they have are unbelievable. Since this board helped me find my GGG gran in the poorhouse (and finding out where to search after the BMD's and Census records) I have found from the info on the poor register that her father was a shipowner/master and have got the name of 1 of his ships from Fife archives but cant get any more info on the family.
I also searched for her hubby in NAS and am waiting on Kew posting me his service record as an excise officer.so the class has helped a lot.
They have shown us loads of ways to try and trace ppl ie voters rolls, valuation rolls, school records and church records also post office listings not to mention the stuff they have on micr fiche/ film. They have old maps that help you to find which school/church was in the district ur rellie lived in. I cant believe all the stuff thats been under my nose all these years u could spend a month of Sundays looking at it all.
As I said b4 only started doing this in June so I suppose I have got a good bit done (have started the other 3 but have learned QUICKLY that its toooo confusing ) so doing 1 at a time. Next week is the last week then I wont have an excuse not to do xmas shop!
Many Thanks
Linda

Hi Linda

Catherine here. I have copied these from IGI:

The mother's name is Agnes Guthrie and some of the children's names of James and Janet Purves would fit eg Peter

James Brodie - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 15 FEB 1775 Haddington, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
4. Agnes Brodie - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 MAR 1777 Gifford, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
5. Peter Brodie - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 JUL 1779 Tranent, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
6. Margaret Brodie - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 09 DEC 1781 Gifford, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
7. George Brodie - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 23 MAY 1784 Gifford, Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland

This is the third birth date for James so can't be certain you have 1789, his marriage has 1785 and this has 1775. So can't be certain.

However I have found the death of James:

6 1865 BRODIE JAMES M ANDERSTON GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/08 0617
There are no parents names. But it is signed by George Hamilton. I think the reason for no parents names is because Agnes Hamitlon died in 1861.

Hope this makes sense.

Regards

Catherine

Hi Catherine,
I posted a reply to you but dont see it (maybe I didnt press submit time for bed me thinks!)
Thanks for your help I have got the DC from SP and will look at the BC 2moro.
MANY THANKS
Linda

Linda before you spend any more money on SP, do you know where Agnes's siblings were living? It could be that James lodged with his children in turn? You know a month with one and a month with another - just to show no favouritism. If you know where the siblings were that may narrow the search even further.

With regards to your class in the Mitchell, couldn't you just move in there for a few months? When I go to the Mitchell it is usually just for a couple of hours but OH now knows just to carry on with his own lunch and if it is a weekday, his dinner too! Can't wait to retire and spend whole days in the Mitchell just browsing - ooh the luxury of it! Oh and the odd day off for trips to the Scotlandspeople Centre with my bus pass!

Sorry forgot to say - Have you looked at the Fife Family History website? It is pretty good and they have some useful records on there.

Hi Catherine and rootgatherer,
Just checking in and found your post the family were in North Berwick
East Lothian in census 1841/51 in 1861 james is with Agnes and hubby in Glasgow not looked for rest of siblings yet.
RE the stuff u gave me from the IGI dont think its him my reasoning is that on the 1841 census his age is 50 on the 51 its 61 and on the 61 its 71 these would put his DOB between 1790-91 also the one on IGI would have been 86 on the 1861 census. I have a copy of his marriage dated 24/8/1810 doesnt show his age where did u see it?
The 41 census doesnt give place of birth, its unreadable on the 51 and on the 61 its Haddington North Berwick! aaargh!!!
I have found a BC 9/10/1791 in Gladsmuir East Lothian Father Robert -shoemaker and mother Helen Lugton there is another one DOB30/8/1789 parents James Brodie and Agnes Goutry Whittinghame East Lothian but that year doesnt match with the ages on the census?
OMG I have just looked at the 1851 census and it could be Whittinghame .
Lord why couldnt he make up his mind where he was born Im just going to go back onto SP and use up more credits will let u know what I find
You are right about the Mitchell I could live there just in case you are interested the Archives section is open on Sat 4/12 they dont open every sat.
Linda

Hi Catherine,
Okay this birth is for James Brodie 24/8/1789 to JamesBrodie and Agnes Goutry (bit weird cos one u found was Agnes Guthrie in Haddington. Help now what do I do? Unfortunately it doesnt give the fathers occupation might have sealed the deal if he had been a baker! I am going back to Edinburgh on Friday.
Got to go and feed the crew now will check back in later thanks for all the help
Linda

Hi Linda. James Brodie gives his age as 71 years on the 1861 census. I suppose that could be a couple of years out. When you next go to the Scotlandspeople centre just trawl through every James Brodie death (from 1861) that is about the correct age till you find you James. Although you don't know for sure his parents' names, you should be able to identify him as "widower of Janet Purvis". Hopefully you will recognise the informant too. If you are lucky, the informant will have know his parents' names. It is a slow process I know but it really is the way to do it as it is much to expensive to search online when there isn't an obvious death showing.

Regarding his age, it does seem to be consistent - remember that on the 1841 census adult ages were supposed to have been rounded down to multiples of 5.

hi rootgatherer,
I have his DC - thanks to Catherine - see above post he died in Glasgow 13/6/1865 death was registered by his son-in-law George Hamilton the tobacconist but unfortunately the parents names only show ( F) Brodie (it does say flour miller ) and M is only shown as Brodie no MS.
I think the one I found born in Whittingehame is him just bad luck no parents names on DC coupled with no fathers occupation on BC but the parents names of James/Agnes do fit cos 2 of James+Janets children were named James and Agnes.
The 1851 census (done on 30/3) states his age as 61 this fits as he would have turned 62 in the August The 1871 census was done on 30/3 shows his age as 71 again this fits as he would have turned 72 in August
I am almost sure that it is his birth in Whittingehame . I did a search on Google and found that Whittingehame and Haddington are only 8 miles apart so suppose it is possible that he could have been born in one and lived in the other?
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Linda

Sorry for the late reply Linda. Yes I think that the Whittingham looks quite good. The Scottish naming pattern can be a good guide. For myself, if I was including the possible birth and parents for James in my tree, I would add a note giving my reasons why I thought that those were the parents . It is quite difficult in Scotland with pre 1855 events to be sure that you have the correct person and funnily enough this can be made worse by the Scottish naming pattern! e.g. if two brothers have their first born sons in the same year and both name then for their father it can be difficult to identify which son belongs to which brother.

The site for the Fife Family History is here.

http://fifefamilyhistorysociety.blogspot.com/

It is really quite a good site - I just wish some of my ancestors were from Fife!

Hi rootgatherer,
No problem waiting for your reply at this time of year its busy, busy, busy. I will take up you suggestion of putting a note beside this birth. Its the last class at the Mitchell this week (if I can get there with all the snow!)
I was in Edinburgh on Friday and popped into the NAS ( national archives Scotland) Unfortunately no-one told me you need 2 photo ID's and a utility bill b4 u can do a search of the records and even then some of the records are stored "off site" and can take a couple of days to come to them. Something to note if anyone plans on going through if you can find the ref no for the records you want to see b4 u go phone ahead and request them or u may have a wasted trip.
I was trying to find a Robert Clark shipowner/shipmaster who sailed from Limekilns in Fife so will have a look at the site you gave me.
Thanks for all your help much appreciated.
Linda