Find Ancestors

16 Dec 2010 - Thread was started with the following request for a lookup, now it's just me looking for my people. ;) With many thanks for the help here.


William Ponton -- there are three of them the right-ish age showing on a free search at FMP.

I *think* one of them will be my grx3 grandfather. (Time to start chasing a different line!)

PONTON William 1797 Canterbury, Kent
PONTON William 1799 Swindon, Wiltshire
PONTON William 1801 Warminster, Wiltshire

I don't know what details FMP has on these Chelsea Pensioners, but if someone would check and tell me, I'd be most hugely grateful.

All three of them I guess, just for good measure!


I had been eying the Warminster one, who is in Faversham in the 1851 census

Name: William Ponton
Estimated birth year: abt 1801
Where born: Warminster, Wiltshire, England
with daughter Amelia c1846 Devon.

Same household in 1871, now in Blean; he died there later in 1871; Amelia married later that year. He is Chelsea Pensioner.

On my WP's daughter Mary's marriage certificate mid-1850s she stated father's occupation as "soldier". Could have been deceased, of course. Probably was.

Here's what a distant cousin (in the family my Ponton married into) told me a couple of years ago:

I had a look at the Christening Index and found that there are in fact two Mary Pontons on it
- one baptised 19 December 1824, daughter of William & Elizabeth >> presumably mine
- the other baptised 18 September 1825, daughter of George & Elizabeth.

My presumed Mary shows in censuses as born Canterbury c1826 and is a servant in 1841. She's the only Ponton in St Mary Magdalen. So no hope of associating her with family in early censuses.

I've ruled out loads of others (e.g. John W Ponton c1825 in Faversham with sister Hannah Rogers was son of William and Mary and born Lancashire.) (Also ruled out the WP in Devon in 1841, Gunner RN, as he is there 41-51-61, and would have been a Greenwich Pensioner.)

A James Ponton and Mary Young married 1791 in St Mildred, Canterbury, and had a load of children; Mary is in St Margaret, aged 70, in 1841. And now after an hour of casting about in all these records, I find -- son William:

WILLIAM PONTON
Christening: 05 JUN 1796 Saint George The Martyr, Canterbury, Kent, England
Father: JAMES PONTON
Mother: MARY
Batch No.: P015161

Well dandy! -- good chance that is my William, not the one in Kent born in Warminster. And deceased by 1841. Father James could have come from Warminster (most Pontons do) -- there are baptisms 1769, 1773 (submitted, both with father William). I may have just got two generations back.

The only other child of a WP and Elizabeth at pilot.familysearch is James born 1809, Faversham. That James would be too early to be a child of my WP (if born 1796) and Elizabeth. Mary isn't there or in the IGI.


Anyhow! Would be grateful for the Chelsea Pensioners info, whatever little it is!

Janey,
If you'll accept the images via e-mail from me...I've got the first 2 fellows ready to roll. Not much info on them,I'm afraid.

Best,
Maureen

Sorry-off to bed. Catch you in the morning.

Maureen

I shall PM you the place to send and thanks very much!

Didn't expect there'd be much there, but just finding the records at all seems to be confirmation of my William's existence, since he's not in censuses.


Adding just for me:

Name: Elizabeth Ponton
Burial Date: 23 Dec 1831
Burial Place: Canterbury, Kent, England
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991

Could be my Elizabeth wife of William mother of Mary. Could be somebody else ... as could:

Name: Elizabeth Haris Ponton
Burial Date: 27 Jan 1839
Burial Place: Canterbury, Kent, England
Collection: England Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991




Birth/Christening, 1780 - 1820, Kent, England, British Isles
Father: James Ponton, Mother: Mary

International Genealogical Index - Christenings

1. Eliza Ponton - 05 APR 1812 St Margaret'S, Canterbury, Kent, England
2. Maria Susannah Ponton - 27 DEC 1807 St Margaret'S, Canterbury, Kent, England
3. WILLIAM PONTON - 05 JUN 1796 Saint George The Martyr, Canterbury, Kent, England
4. JAMES PONTON - 10 JUN 1798 Saint George The Martyr, Canterbury, Kent, England (died 1866?)
5. CHARLOTTE PONTON - 27 JUL 1800 Saint Mary Magdalene, Canterbury, Kent, England
6. SARAH PONTON - 16 MAR 1794 Saint George The Martyr, Canterbury, Kent, England
7. Ann Ponton - 18 MAR 1792 Canterbury, Kent, England

plus

Name: George Ponton
Baptism/Christening Date: 21 Oct 1804
Baptism/Christening Place: Canterbury, Kent, England
Father's Name: James Ponton
Mother's Name: Mary
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Name: John Ponton
Baptism/Christening Date: 26 Sep 1802
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mary Magdalene, Canterbury, Kent, England
Father's Name: James Ponton
Mother's Name: Mary Ponton
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975


Groom's Name: James Ponton
Bride's Name: Mary Young
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1791
Marriage Place: St. Mildred, Canterbury, Kent, England
Collection: England Marriages, 1538–1973



Just building my tree!


1851

Name: George Ponton
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Canterbury, Kent, England
Civil parish: St Pancras

1841

Name: George Pontons (it says Ponton)
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England
Civil parish: St Margaret
Hundred: Canterbury City and Borough
County/Island: Kent
City of Canterbury Workhouse

(and I've traced him forward)

A brother for Mary?? Looks like. And found their grandmother Mary (Young) Ponton still living in Kent in 1841.

Janey is this the last one?

I noted Maureen had found the first 2?

First name(s): William
Last name: PONTON
Calculated year of birth: 1801
Parish of birth: Warminster
Town of birth: Warminster
County of birth: Wiltshire
Age at attestation: 17 years
Attestation date: 11 March 1818
Discharge rank: Colr Serjeant
Discharge corps: 7th Royal Regt Of Fusiliers
Discharge soldier number: 148
The National Archives reference: WO97 / 292 / 14

Janey, again i can also email you the images if you wish them.

Tracey x

Images sent.

Maureen

Thank you both! I think Maureen has sent the full set -- I have to get to work and will peruse them later today.

The Warminster one is the one I had been eyeing for ages and now it seems he isn't mine, mine's the 1796 Canterbury one. Pontons no doubt come from Warminster/Wiltshire at some point, but so far I seem to have mine back to that 1791 marriage in Kent ... and who knows whether I'll be able to go farther than that ... or find out whom my William married.

Aargh, it's the Wiltsihre Barnard-Castles all over again!

But I will, Ann o' GG, I will. ;)

[a bunch of Wiltshire Ponton parish records were posted and now deleted but they mostly postdated my Kent Pontons]

As I did say, there are Pontons all over Warminster/Wilton. And I can do the IGI and pilot.familysearch just like you can!

There's no way to connect mine in Kent to any of 'em at present, let alone to Pontons in Warminster after my 1791 marriage in Kent! The two submitted records for the birth of a James in Warminster of an age to marry in 1791 are my best clues so far, but nothing to hang my hat on.

-- I just rechecked the 1841 census for what seems to be Mary (Young) c1771, widow of James Ponton (mother of William 1796, grandmother of my Mary), and she shows as born in county. For what that's worth, but since they married there I suspect she was.

sob, sniff!!!!

Begone with your snot. ;)


Big thanks to MaureenNY (and Tracey who offered) for the Chelsea Pensioner images. I've read the one I'm sure is mine, who of course isn't the one with the 5-page file, nooo, that's the one I had wrongly fixated on.

Mine is two short pages. He was 25 years old when discharged from 9th Foot in May 1821 because of "Intermittent Fever Visceral Disease". Um, ew. Lived long enough to father Mary in 1824, anyway, and it seems George later.

The interesting thing is where he was discharged: Grenada. So what happened then, paid out and sent on your way? I assume they shipped them back home!

Grenada. I had no idea. Thought the only world traveller in my bunches was old Ernest Monck/Hill with his temporary emigration to Australia before returning to mother England and then making off to Canada.

Have now got to investigate this 9th foot and what they were up to in Grenada. Ann o' GG, be still.

... Oh wait. At Grenada, not in Grenada. Spain, not West Indies. Well, still. ;)

Hmmm,

Whom did he marry?

Surname: Ponton
Forenames : William
Year of Marriage: 25 Mar 1824
Spouse surname: Dolan
Spouse forenames: Mary
Place: Rochester
County: Kent
Source: St.Margarets Rochester 1813-1851
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Record source: Thames & Medway Marriages
Data provider: Rob Cottrell, Trueflare Limited

Oh!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_%28East_Norfolk%29_Regiment_of_Foot

The Regiment was sent to Canada with most of Wellington's veteran units to prevent the threatened invasion by the US, and so arrived in Europe too late for Waterloo. The 1st battalion participated in the Army of Occupation in France, whilst the 2nd was disbanded at the end of 1815.


The war the US doesn't like to mention -- the War of 1812 -- because THEY LOST!!

I had a friend who used to taunt USAmericans about that (they don't acknowledge either that they were the aggressors or that they lost). Who won? When you drove up here, did you happen to notice that border you crossed? ;)

But my William wouldn't have been involved; too young. He enlisted on 24 December 1814 at the age of 17 years and 239 days, for unlimited service.

Who enlists in the army underage on Christmas Eve??

Someone desperate for dinner, maybe.

Oh lord, Lou, another William?

The parents of my Mary - baptised 19 December 1824 --were William and Elizabeth.
(The parents of the 1825 Mary were George and Mary -- that George seems to have been my William's brother.)

William and Mary? Gimme strength ...

Oh, that's Rochester! No, mine were Canterbury.

He enlisted in Canterbury in 1814 and Mary was born there in 1825, and James Ponton and Mary Young his putative parents married there in 1791.

So there may be connections with the Faversham Ponton crowd ... and now Rochester ... but I think that isn't him, anyway.

Or Grenada the island after all?

http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/Testweb2009/29hist_chapter8.php

The 9th Foot were there in 1795.

I need my military historian!

(Interestingly the Worcestershire Regiment was what William Ponton's great-grandson was in from his battlefield promotion late in WWI to when he left sometime in the 20s after occupying Ireland for a while.)

Gotta sort out this Grenada business.

And I forgot -- the ancestor I share with 007 was in the West Indies with Drake way earlier too. ;)

Would these be of help to you?

http://www.armymuseums.org.uk/amot-search/default.asp?Category=Amot&Service=Museum-Display&reference=0000000112

http://www.rnrm.org.uk/history/history_01.html


T x

Hmmm, this book is dated 1822?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=UDMaAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90&dq=9th+regiment+of+foot+%2B+grenada&source=bl&ots=BUAbmiJU1f&sig=6ZYuEduV35RqxPSynqLL5LdR8-M&hl=en&ei=vjuRTL2mMMz44gaC5cHgDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=9th%20regiment%20of%20foot%20%20%20grenada&f=false

It at least places the 9th Foot in Grenada, even if it doesn't give you much more!


T x

Ta, Lou, have had a look.

We've been watching Northanger Abbey taped from a couple of nights ago (have had to interrupt our viewing to watch the US BB12 finale etc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northanger_Abbey

Although it was published in 1818 it was written just before 1800. We'd watched a couple of other Austen's recently, and I'd just finally got around to reading P&P and another one a couple of years ago. There are military types all over them, of course -- brothers on leave, scoundrels and gamblers, etc -- and they're interesting for that, the generation before official record-keeping started, the one that included my William Ponton here. If only someone had been writing books about the footsoldiers and not just the wastrel officers!

I wonder whether "intermittent fever visceral disease" was tuberculosis -- "phthisis abdominalis" on the death certificates of some of my ancestors.

I'm just pottering with my people again here.


Mary (Young) Ponton in 1841:

Name: Mary Ponton
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1771
Where born: Kent, England

Civil Parish: St Margaret
County/Island: Kent
Registration district: Canterbury

Mary Ponton 70
Eliza Ponton 30
James Ponton 40 (baptised 10 JUN 1798)


Mary Young
Christening: 09 DEC 1770 Canterbury, Kent, England
Father: John Young
Mother: Sarah Young
Batch No.: I013918 - no others in batch


Other possibles, but that's a wide time spread:

ELIZABETH YOUNG Christening: 17 MAY 1786 Saint Alphege, Canterbury, Kent, England
SARAH YOUNG Christening: 24 NOV 1776 Saint Paul, Canterbury, Kent, England
ANN YOUNG Christening: 27 MAY 1787 Saint Alphege, Canterbury, Kent, England


No birth for her husband James Ponton, although there is a much earlier (1629) James Pounton baptism in St Alphage (and a Dorothe Pounton 1628, different father), so they may be indigenous to Kent, at least that far back, anyway. ;)

visceral disease is usually associated with the internal organs, especially the stomach and intestines.

However phthisis is an archaic medical term for tuberculosis

People keep telling me things I know! ;)

Phthisis abdominalis is abdominal tuberculosis (of which a couple of people in one of my families, that I know of, died in the 1870s). It generally involved the mesenteric / lymph glands in the abdomen. It was something I hadn't heard of before deciphering those death certificates and googling: we tend to think of tuberculosis as affecting the lungs (phthisis pulmonaris, which got a couple of others in that family).

Here's a recent discussion of it:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/trying_to_find/thread/1251818

I admit I haven't put much time into figuring out what an 1821 diagnosis of visceral disease (that I did just learn of here), a pretty non-specific term, might have meant!

Well aha. I had wondered about dysentery, given that he was in the West Indies, so I just googled

"visceral disease" dysentery

and here I find a google books result:

"The influence of tripical climates on European Constitutions", James Johnson 1826, Tropical medicine.

and also an article in the Edinburgh Medical and Surgical Journal, 1814.

So I shall have to read up. Unfortunately, William must have died befroe 1837 (the one in 1871 in Blean is the other one, from Wiltshire), so no death certificate for me.