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Hi Maureen'
You have been so busy !
This father William Bolton fits in a lot better with the details on the Marriage of Marth & frederick .. & yes he could well be a Groom as he is listed on mrrge as occ: Ostler which is a Stablehand, some times the writing is so hard to decipher on the census'!!.. I have been looking through endless lists of Boltons but looks like you got a good one here,
Thank you for all your help... sleep well !!
Caz x

And now it's my turn for bed!!

Maureen

Just wondering about this family:
1871
Name: William Bolton
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Easton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Hornsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Hornsey
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Hornsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 98
Household Members:
Name Age
William Bolton 36
Thomas Morley 16
Mary A Morley 10
Martha Bolton 6
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1335; Folio: 13; Page: 18

I think it says William's a groom. (but it could say grocer!!) And I can't work out where he was born.

Maureen

Hi Everyone !
wow what a great surprise this morning to read all this information you have found! so we have finally found Cecil half bro to Herbert/Albert, and worked out the marriage situation for Frederick, Martha 1887 {thank you maureen } yes that all works out with the Bolton side though i have noted the 1881 Household with martha age 17, works out to age at marriage 23,yes this has to be the one, But, Her father is named Thomas Bolton Occupation Upholsterer.... on the marriage it says Spouses father name William Bolton.. Occupation Ostler... overlooking that this is the obvious marriage because everything else fits in so well, William could be his second Name and he could have given up the upholstery to become an Ostler {stableman ?} there is 6 years difference & I believe they did some weird things back then !
Also Looking at The 1891 Census with Frederick 29
Martha 26 plus their 3 children Martha/Mable & Dorothy, there's Ada Bollon {Bolton} b1887 4 servant.. could this be a chld out of wedlock to one of the Bolton girls & being raised by Martha & Fred ? Or was she Marthas child Born before marriage it might just work out !??
Thanks for your help you have all worked extremeley hard and im so pleased with all the info you have come up with,
Caz x

Martha ellen Mary howard died J/A/S 1891.

Maryb

Battersea is in Wandsworth RD

Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
Howard Martha Ellen M Wandsworth 1d 605

Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
Howard Dorothy Beatrice Wandsworth 1d 566
Howard Mabel Florence Wandsworth 1d 566

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
Howard Frederick Charles Wandsworth 1d 702

I only found one Fred* Howard + Martha marr - Staines 1886q4 which didn't seem likely until I saw Maureen's post. There is a
M-1887q2 Frederick Howard St Saviour 1d 188

FreeBMD has

Marriages Jun 1887 (49%)
Perham William Henry St.Saviour 1d 188
WOODS Sarah Letitia St. Saviour 1d 188

but they only got images for half the index a couple of months back, so if Martha's MS starts with A thru mid-L, we'll have to wait till they get that transcribed to see who's the missing bride.

I did come across another odd marr whose relevance escapes me:

Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
CLAY Daniel St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 701
Denyer Martha St.Geo.H.Sq. 1a 701
Groom Catharine Susan St Geo H Sq 1a 701
Howard Frederick St Geo H Sq 1a 701

****************************************

1881 Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Thos. BOLTON Head M Male 51 London, London, Middlesex, England Upholsterer
A. BOLTON Wife M Female 48 Devon, England
Annie BOLTON Daur U Female 19 London, London, Middlesex, England Carpet Sewer
Martha BOLTON Daur U Female 17 London, London, Middlesex, England Carpet Sewer ?
Ellen BOLTON Daur Female 15 London, London, Middlesex, England Carpet Sewer ?
Louisa BOLTON Daur Female 10 London, London, Middlesex, England Scholar
Hannah BOLTON Daur Female 6 London, London, Middlesex, England Scholar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 24 Greville St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341074
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0342 / 108
Page Number 44

So there is Cecil Mills born 1907 on 1911 census half brother to Herbert Victor.
Martha Howard married William Mills in Wandsworth J/A/S 1909 after both children were born V1d P 1414.
Cecil William Mills sept 1904 Wandsworth 1d 675
Maryb

Hi that could be Fred and Martha nee Bolton is correct as on 1891 census says Ada bollon a servant could be Martha Bolton's sister mistranscribed.
The date fits with Martha Ellen Mary Howard being born about 1888.

Maryb.

I wonder about this marriage:
Name: Frederick Howard Occ:Butcher
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1863
Spouse Name: Martha Bolton
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Dec 1887
Parish: St Mary, Staines
County: Surrey
Borough: Spelthorne
Father Name: Thomas Howard Occ:Gardener
Spouse Father Name: William Bolton Occ:Ostler
Witnesses were Philip and Elizabeth Pearce

Maureen

1911

is this Frederick (says he is a Widower!)


HOWARD FREDERICK (RG14PN266 RD3 SD2 ED46 SN1)
Institution name Rowton House Lodging House Rowton House Lodging House
Address 221 HAMMERSMITH ROAD W County London
District Fulham Subdistrict South Hammersmith
Enumeration District 46 Parish Hammersmith



WALKER, JOHN STAFFORD RESIDENT SINGLE M 55 MESSENGER WOLVERHAMPTON BERSK
MARTIN, WILLIAM RESIDENT SINGLE M 50 MOTOR CLEANER LONDON MIDDX
BROADHURST, WILLIAM RESIDENT WIDOWER M 60 PAPERHANGER OXFORD
PIGGOTT, ROBERT RESIDENT SINGLE M 35 TAILOR WAREHAM NORFOLK
******HOWARD, FREDERICK RESIDENT WIDOWER M 49 BUTCHER HENLEY ON THAMES OXFORD ********************
RILEY, PHILLIP RESIDENT SINGLE M 49 TAILOR BIRMINGHAM WARWICK
WOODHEAD, CHARLES RESIDENT MARRIED M 57 ART DEALER DUMBARTON RESIDENT
IRVING, WILLIAM RESIDENT SINGLE M 45 CARMAN WICKHAM SUFFOLK
GROVER, WILLIAM RESIDENT SINGLE M 38 GENERAL LABOURER KENSINGTON MIDDX
CULLINGWORTH, WILLIAM RESIDENT SINGLE M 35 TAILORS CATTER CHAPPEL ALLERTON YORKS
FRENCH, SAMUEL RESIDENT WIDOWER M 45 FLORIST NEW CROSS KENT
WATSON, GEORGE RESIDENT MARRIED M 33 THEATRE CLERK BICKLEY KENT
LETHBRIDGE, MIDLAND RESIDENT SINGLE M 49 NEWS VENDOR PLYMOUTH DEVON
GOODE, HERBERT RESIDENT MARRIED M 42 HOTEL PORTER BLUNTISHAM HUNTS
OAKES, GEORGE KNITTON RESIDENT SINGLE M 48 COAL MERCHANT CITY OF LONDON MIDDX
O'BRIEN, JOHN RESIDENT WIDOWER M 43 SCAFFOLDER FULHAM MIDDX
CURRIE, RICHARD RESIDENT MARRIED M 41 CELLARMAN PIMLICO MIDDX
MATTHEWS, WILLIAM RESIDENT SINGLE M 21 PHOTOGRAPHY BARNES SURREY
CLARK, GEORGE RESIDENT MARRIED M 37 GAME DEALER LITTLEHAMPTON SUSSEX
ALLEN, WILLIAM JOHN RESIDENT WIDOWER M 40 SHOP ASSISTANT SHEPHERDS BUSH MIDDX
YOUNG, RICHARD RESIDENT SINGLE M 30 SHOWMAN HAMMERSMITH MIDDX
HEWETT, CHARLES RESIDENT SINGLE M 45 HOTEL PORTER BLANDFORD DORSET
POWER, JAMES RESIDENT SINGLE M 50 FURNITURE PORTER BOSTON LINCOLNS
ROBERT, ERNEST RESIDENT SINGLE M 27 ARTIST CAMDEN GLOUC
MORRISON, GEORGE RESIDENT SINGLE M 33 SEAMAN LIVERPOOL FRANCE
DOISEOTT, ARTHUR RESIDENT MARRIED M 47 HAIR DRESSER DUBLIN RESIDENT
COOPER, GEORGE RESIDENT WIDOWER M 60 MOTOR ENGINEER NORWICK NORFOLK
CHAMBERS, WILLIAM ALFRED RESIDENT SINGLE M 36 WAITER LONDONDERRY RESIDENT
WHITER, HENRY RESIDENT SINGLE M 25 STOKER KINGSTON SURREY
WHITE, FREDERICK RESIDENT MARRIED M 44 HOUSE PAINTER WESTMINSTER MIDDX

MaureeninNY
WOW... Looks a sure winner !! youre a diamond!
but hey i really must close now will catch you all again in the morning,
night,
Big Thanks Caz x

Thanks for that one Choccy, no i havent got it every little bit helps & is appreciated,
night now
Caz

1911 census transcription details for: 74 Garfield Road

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN3489 RG78PN130 RD40 SD1 ED27 SN49


Reg. District: Kingston Sub District: Wimbledon
Parish: Wimbledon Enum. District: 27
Address: 74 Garfield Road
County: Surrey
MILLS, Martha Wife Twice Married F 50 1861 Walworth Lon
MILLS, Cecil Son M 6 1905 School Lwr Tooting Lon
MILLS, Sidney Son M 4 1907 Lwr Tooting Lon
HOWARD, Dorothy Daughter Single F 20 1891 Packer Battersea Lon
HOWARD, Mabel Daughter Single F 20 1891 Box Sticker Battersea Lon
HOWARD, Frederick Son Single M 18 1893 Improver Battersea Lon
HOWARD, Victor Son Single M 15 1896 Lather Boy Shepherds Bush
STRATTON, Arthur Nephew M 9 1902 School Lwr Tooting Lon
ELCOCK, Walter Nurse Child M 2 1909 Chelsea Lon
BYRNES, Violet Nurse Child F 0 (9 MONTHS) 1911 Clapham Lon


Maureen

Hi choccy
Both are close enough for the 'Colchester Connectiion" But no mention of half brother Cecil, Alberts other brother Fred was in engineering, Albert was in the Suffolk reg as a Bomb Instructor in ww1, {He was also a Valet to a Dr lognenotti, so im told} Do feel drawn toward the 1891 census with his Father Frederick Occupation Butcher.. I love all this family history although it drives me crazy at times !! & time gets away to quickly,
Anyway im off t bed in a few secs as its almost 12:15 am out here in Australia.. will catch up tomorrow thanks for all your help .
Caz

This isn't helping in your search, but here's Mabel's marriage, if you haven't got it -

Father Frederick is still a butcher.


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Mabel Florence Howard
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Spouse Name: Edward Arthur Smith
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Jul 1915
Parish: St Jude, East Brixton
County: Middlesex
Borough: Lambeth
Father Name: Frederick Charles Howard
Spouse Father Name: John Dann Smith



Source Citation: London Metropolitan Archives, Saint Jude, East Brixton, Register of marriages, P85/JUD/A/02, Item 005

Think that's this one who married Rosetta -

1901 England Census
Name: Frederick C Howard
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Louisa
Gender: Male
Where born: Halstead, Essex, England

Civil parish: Colchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Colchester
Sub-registration district: Colchester, Third Ward
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 203
Household Members: Name Age
Louisa Howard 47
Frederick C Howard 22
Ethel Howard 20
Frank Howard 17
Lily Howard 15
Ada W Howard 6




Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1711; Folio: 21; Page: 33.

this could be the Colchester connection -


Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ayling Albert Edward Colchester 4a 1255
DIXEY Mary Ethel Colchester 4a 1255
******HOWARD Frederick Charles Colchester 4a 1255
******Kidd Rosetta Colchester 4a 1255



1911 census -

HOUSEHOLD HOWARD FREDRICK CHARLES M 1879 32 Colchester Essex
HOUSEHOLD HOWARD ROSETTA F 1880 31 Colchester Essex


No credits to view.


Maybe a coincidence.

Thanks Choccy, also MaryB the birth Reg for Herbert Victor Howard J/F/M/ 1896 would that be the one as he was born O/N/D 1895 , I guess they could have regd him the following year,! I had looked at that one so many times ..Think ill go with it !
Thanks Caz
Freewheel,I have been on that site before always brings up a negative Thank you anyway & i see youve gone and deleted...no worries.
thanks Caz

Sorry MaryB
Looks like we have found Frederick aged 8,
need to find Cecil he had connections with St Osyth think thats near Jaywick sands or Clacton on Sea Essex
Caz

1891 England Census
Name: Martha Ellen Mary Howard
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Frederick
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Female
Where born: Battersea, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Battersea
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wandsworth
Sub-registration district: West Battersea
ED, institution, or vessel: 36
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Frederick Howard 29
Martha Howard 26
Martha Ellen Mary Howard 3
Mable Florence Howard 3/12
Dorothy Beatrice Howard 3/12
Ada Bollon 4 (nurse girl)
Emma Chapman 66 (lodger)




Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 435; Folio 75; Page 12; GSU roll: 6095545.