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My Mother Rosa Mann bn 1893, adopted by George H. Mann had two sons George Henry 1893 & William Henry bn 1895 Holborn.
George senior died Portsmouth bur. 1912 .
End of the road for me to find , please help.

who had the two sons? you say rosa was born 1893 ??

Dear Shirley, re Rosa Mann
Sorry mess I got you into, story of my life!
I have found that george H Mann rgistered on my mothers brth. cert is probably ficticious , to cover her embarresment on having no father on her brth, cert. which of course I do not have , brn Norfolk 1893 as far as I can say. I feel I should give up searching , wasting peoples time for I cannot see I will ever find her family.
Thanks for your help Regards Stan

Stan /still doesn't make sense sorry, how can Rosa be born in 1893 and have two children born before 1900??
Are you saying she had George Mann as her father on her MARRIAGE cert not birth cert !

If you have no certificiate how do you know George appears on it as her father?

Is this not her then ?

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Births Mar 1893

Mann Rosa - Norwich 4b 180

I think the sons are George's.

Births Dec 1893

Mann George Henry - Holborn 1b 665

Can't see a William h 1895 in Holborn but there are these 2 possibles

Births Mar 1895
Mann William Henry - St. Giles 1b 660

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Births Jun 1896
MANN William Henry - St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 426

how can they be Georges if she wasnt born till 1893 .your dates dont add up.
have you got the certs for the sons ?

I understood it to mean that George senior had two sons and also adopted Rosa

Stanley please clarify.

Ah wasnt reading it like that !! was going round in circles

this is the George who died ?


Deaths Dec 1912 (>99%)
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Mann George H 41 Portsmouth 2b 520

Names seem to fit -



1901 England Census
Name: Rosa Isabella Manor
[Rosa Isabella Mann]
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George Henry
Mother's Name: Minnie
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Carman

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Peter, Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 140
Household Members: Name Age
George Henry Manor 34
Minnie Manor 31
Rosa Isabella Manor 8
George Henry Manor 7
William Henry Manor 5




Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 379; Folio: 99; Page: 23.



All born London

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Rosa Isabella Mann
Year of Registration: 1892
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St George Hanover Square
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 418

According to Stanley, Rosa was born in Norfolk .

Yes I know, but the 1901 census is the only family I can find that 'fit' at the moment.

Perhaps Stanley will be able to assist when he gets back to his thread.

Choccy

I'd say you 1901 find was a good match

I wonder if Stanley took the Norfolk birthplace from the birth entry for 1893 which he assumes is hers.

If she was adopted then she probably wasn't born with the name Mann anyway.

PM From Stanley ,
Forget all previous, as I think George H was added to ROSAs mrg crt. to save her embarrasment if she had no fathers name on her brth. cert.
She was mrd 1916 on the 4th of Jan. age 25 yrs husband Bernard C Lane address 30 and 32 Delamere Rd Southsea .
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Marriages Mar 1916
Lane Bernard C - Mann - Portsmouth 2b 1076
Mann Rosa E - Lane - Portsmouth 2b 1076

Also had a PM from Stanley yesterday .I have replied advising him how to reply on the thread rather than clicking on a name,
this is Stans PM

From Stanley Oh Shirley another fine mess I've got you in .
It seems my Mother Rosa possibly had no fathers name on brth. cert. so made one up on her mrg. cert. I believe this was common at the time,but makes itnearly impossible to find her.The only one I can see was a Mary Ann Mann in Essex 1901 census with a daughter Rosa both bn Norwich and a Mary Mann in Croydon at a large house owned by a brewery ( possibly a hotel type place . There were two people here at census time 1911 a Mary Mann housekeeper & cook & a Rosa Mann waitress.
Waitress ties in a little with what I heard of my Mum.
This is correct for brth. dates ie 1891 for Rosa.
Regards Stan

So Stan What makes you think she was born in Norfolk please?
this is the one you quote on the 1901 census ,Was your Mum Rosa Eunice???

Name: Rosa Mann
[Rosa Eunice Mann]
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Norwich

Civil parish: Ramsden Crays
Ecclesiastical parish: Ramsden Crays St Mary
Town: Ramsden Crays
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:Goats Moor Cottage

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Billericay
Sub-registration district: Wickford
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 44
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ann Mann 49 occ charwoman WIDOW
Rosa Mann 11

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 1668; Folio: 36; Page: 7.