Find Ancestors

I'm reposting this as I think my previous title may have put people off!

I'm trying to find more information on my nan's side of the family. Elizabeth Jane Holland is my nan's mum and James Holland and Sarah Shepheard are her parents. There was a rumour that James Holland was a gypsy, so wondering if that's why I'm struggling to find anything on him.

Sarah Ann Shepheard, apparently born around 1876 and died at 66, born in Stepney.

Married James Holland, born 1880. Worked on fishstall at Whitechapel
Already decased by 1930 when his daughter married. According to someone in family, his nickname was gypsy, but I don't know whether this was just a nickname or meant he had been a gypsy.

Children were:

Eliza Maudie Holland, known as Larly
Susan Holland
Sarah Holland (died with her family in the war around 1939-45)
Elizabeth Jane Holland born 3/7/1900 in Stepney (my nan's mum) She had a twin called William who died a few months after he was born. I found his record of death 1900 Oct-Dec. 1c, 258. Elizabeth was known as Jane in the family. She married James William Cook on 21/6/1930, a merchant seaman. He was born 2/7/1904 and I cannot find anything else on him (my nan's dad) either.
James Thomas Holland was the last son, do not know dob.

My main areas of interest are Sarah Shepheard, James Holland (her husband) and Elizabeth Jane Holland and her husband James Cook.

Any help would really be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Lesley

Unfortunately, what really puts people off is new threads about the same subjects.

All you needed to do was use the edit link to change the subject line of the existing thread. Is it deleted now? Did people spend time on it, or did you get no replies?

edit

The best subject line for a thread is something informative -- like

Parents of Elizabeth Jane Holland born 1900 Stepney

Everybody's "stuck"!

So. Your interest is in Sarah Ann Shepheard and James Holland. In their ancestry, that is?

Have you found a record of their marriage so you can order their marriage certificate to get their fathers' names? Have you found either or both in censuses pre marriage?

Janey,

I am sorry, but someone did reply to me and suggested I write more information than my original question, so I did and didn't have any response and as my title was gypsies, I thought maybe it put people off.

I'm relatively new to this and so apologise that it was exactly as it should be. Noone had spent time on it as far as I'm aware.

Yes, I'm interested in James Holland and Sarah Ann Shepheard's ancestory. I did search for their marriage details, but was unable to find anything.

This seems most likely for the last child.


Births Dec 1909
Holland James Thomas Lambeth 1d 326


1911:

HOLLAND JAMES T 1910 1 Lambeth London

in household with him:

HOLLAND JAMES R 1883 28 Lambeth London
HOLLAND SARAH A 1883 28 Lambeth London
HOLLAND ELIZABETH SARAH 1877 34 Lambeth London
HOLLAND DEJ 1904 7 Lambeth London (male)
HOLLAND FEM 1906 5 Lambeth London (female)


The parents certainly seem right -- but if I were you I'd pay to have a look at the image and check out all the information (how many years married, how many children in total, etc.).

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Possible
Sarah A. Shepheard
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 16 York Mews
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, North-West
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
George Shepheard 30
Emma Shepheard 30
Sarah A. Shepheard 8
George Shepheard 6
Arthur Shepheard 2

I'll have a look now, will let you know. Thanks

Looks like red herrings in 1911.


Marriages Dec 1908
HALL Alice Susan Lambeth 1d 637
> HOLLAND James Richard Lambeth 1d 637
> PARSONS Sarah Ann Lambeth 1d 637
WELLS Thomas Joseph Lambeth 1d 637

1911

This Jane was born in Stepney:


HOLLAND JANE 1901 10 West Ham Essex

There are too many other Hollands in West Ham living with a Jane to know the household composition without paying to view, but this name is in the list:

HOLLAND JAMES 1878 33 West Ham Essex

No Sarah, though.

Nice title!

I hope that wasn't the red herring Hollands in 1911 you were going to look at. You'll have to bill me ...

Astra, thanks - will have a look into that. If I can find the marriage details, then I'll see if I can match the two up.

Janey, shame about the 1911 one, thanks for looking. Re the Jane Holland one, will check that too, although I would have thought she still would have been Elizabeth at that time. Thanks again.

How do you have James William Cook's birthdate?

The only births for James William Cook in 1904 were

Q1 in Brighton
Q4 in Mitford

Neither one fits.

I did look at them, but it's fine. You have to look at a few wrong one's to get a right. Appreciate your help!

Re the 1911 Jane Holland -- found her by searching for Holland born 1901 +/- 2 in Stepney. There was no Elizabeth in the results.

I don't see a Jane Holland birth c1901 that matches well, so it might be worth a look. But don't trust my judgment. ;)

My nan gave me his birth date (his daughter). I'm not sure now if it was from his birth cert. I'll have to check. I did this original investigation this time last year and am just picking up on it again.

A maybe!
Jane Elizabeth Holland
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 303

I checked out the Jane Holland and that was an odd one! She is listed as sister in law to the head. The head was Henry Shepheard, married for 5 years to a Sarah Shepheard! Obviously can't be the right one, but funny that both surnames are in the same household. Rest of the household were all Shepheards.

Lesley, isn't it really best to do the checking *before* asking for help? If you have info, it needs to be made available, so people don't go off on wild goose chases.

Re that birth for Jane Elizabeth Holland -- I was under the impression you *knew* her birth details, and she was this one:

Births Sep 1900
Holland Elizabeth Jane Stepney 1c 391

That is, that you had obtained the birth certificate (because you gave an exact date of birth) and the info matched the info on her marriage certificate (age, father's name) -- and that's where the mother's name, Sarah Ann Shepheard came from.

I also assumed that this was the birth you identified as her twin:

Births Sep 1900
Holland William Thomas Stepney 1c 390

-- again, because you had the birth certificate to confirm that.


No?

Well, I think this is the answer to the 1911:


Marriages Dec 1905
> HOLLAND Sarah W. Ham 4a 225
KEEN Jennie W. Ham 4a 225
NICHOLASS Walter Arthur W. Ham 4a 225
> SHEPHEARD Henry James W. Ham 4a 225

You need to get that marriage certificate. It will tell you whether Sarah was in fact previously married.

The other possibility is that she was born Sarah Holland and had Elizabeth Jane as an unmarried woman, and then married Shepheard.