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I am trying to find birth/childhood details about my grandmother, Winifred Clara (Minnie) Clements. She was born on the 11th July 1887 in the Forest of Dean area. Her father was called Samuel, but I don't know her mother's Christian name.
She married my grandfather, David Harris, in Pontypridd Registry Office on 7th February 1907. She died in Amersham, Bucks on 17th February 1973.
Hope someone can help me.
Many thanks,
Sue Benwell.

Have you bought her marriage certificate for her fathers name and occupation? Have you not got her birth cert which would give her mothers maiden name?

1901:? Mother appears to be married still. Sons are coal miners.

Name: Winifred Clements
Age in 1901: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Selina
Gender: Female
Where born: Forent of Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: Llanwonno
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
Town: Mountain Ash
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales



Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Llanwonno
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Selina Clements 54
Thomas George Clements 19
George Clements 17
Winifred Clements 12
Enry Gingston 25

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1907 (>99%)


Clements Minnie Pontypridd 11a 723
HARRIS David Pontypridd 11a 723


She has used Minnie for her marriage

1881

Mary Ann CLEMENTS Head M Female 41 Bath, Somerset, England Wife Of A Wholesale Druggist
Samuel J CLEMENTS Son U Male 19 Clifton Bristol Income From Houses
Madeline CLEMENTS Daur Female 8 London, London, Middlesex, England Scholar
Alice BUCK Serv U Female 17 Upton General Domestic Servant


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Source Information:
Dwelling 4 Camden Terr St Michaels Hill
Census Place Bristol St Michael, Gloucester, England
Family History Library Film 1341596
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2476 / 23
Page Number 9

1881

Samuel CLEMENTS Head M Male 29 Baldock, Hertford, England Groom (ND)
Ann M. CLEMENTS Wife M Female 25 Tetbury, Gloucester, England Grooms Wife
George CLEMENTS Son Male 3 Upton, Gloucester, England
Charles CLEMENTS Son Male 2 Upton, Gloucester, England
Alfred CLEMENTS Son Male 1 Upton, Gloucester, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling Catch Pike
Census Place Tetbury, Gloucester, England
Family History Library Film 1341616
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2552 / 40
Page Number 32

1881

Samuel CLEMENTS Head M Male 48 Yatton, Somerset, England Packer At Drapery
Elizabeth CLEMENTS Wife M Female 45 West Anstey, Devon, England
William CLEMENTS Son U Male 17 Bristol St Phillips Painter
Elizabeth CLEMENTS Daur U Female 14 Bristol St Phillips Nic
Francis CLEMENTS Son U Male 13 Bristol St Phillips Scholar
Alice CLEMENTS Daur U Female 11 Bristol St Phillips Scholar
Sarah CLEMENTS Daur U Female 7 Bristol St Phillips Scholar
Florence CLEMENTS Daur U Female 5 Bristol St Phillips Scholar
Thomas CLEMENTS Son U Male 3 St George, Gloucester, England
Arthur CLEMENTS Son U Male 5 m St George, Gloucester, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 1 Free Garden Beaufort Road
Census Place Bristol St George, Gloucester, England
Family History Library Film 1341599
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2489 / 23
Page Number 40

At the mo I cant see a birth for her. Has mum remarried?

1881

Wm. ADOLPHUS Scholar Male 13 London, London, Middlesex, England Nil
Alf. SMITH Scholar Male 12 London, London, Middlesex, England Nil
Fd. HODSON Scholar Male 12 Birmingham Nil
Sam. CLEMENTS Scholar Male 12 Bristol Nil
Ed. JOHNS Scholar Male 12 Bristol Nil
Jno. BENNETT Scholar Male 11 Bristol Nil
Ed. NEWMAN Scholar Male 13 Bristol Nil
Wm. JOHNSON Scholar Male 13 Leicester, England Nil
Jno. MCLARN Scholar Male 12 London, London, Middlesex, England Nil
Ar. FLANAGAN Scholar Male 13 Manchester Nil
Rd. HUMPAGE Scholar Male 11 Walsall Nil
Chas. TIMOTHY Scholar Male 12 London, London, Middlesex, England Nil
Rd. MCCARTHY Scholar Male 13 Bristol Nil
Hy. BRIGHAM Scholar Male 12 Norwich Nil
Ed. BENNETT Scholar Male 13 Birmingham Nil
Jas. WHEELER Scholar Male 12 Froome, Somerset, England Nil
Wm. CHARLES Scholar Male 13 London, London, Middlesex, England Nil
Ar. GREEN Scholar Male 12 Wincanton, Somerset, England Nil
Wm. JACKSON Scholar Male 13 Greenwich Nil
Jas. BRETT Scholar Male 11 Norwich Nil
(Continued)


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Source Information:
Institution "The Industrial School Ship Formidable"
Census Place Bristol St Stephen, Gloucester, England
Family History Library Film 1341594
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2468 / 88
Page Number 11

According to the death record of 1973 her birth was 11 July 1888 not 1887
This looks like her birth then and only registered as Winifred
Births Sep 1888

CLEMENTS Winefred Westbury S 6a 210

The reg district covered Forest of Dean and there is a discrepancy of the spelling of her name .The original is very unclear so could be a typing error on the actual reg page as its not with an i in it
She seems to have liked playing around with her names !!

i searched for other Clements events in Westbury

I came up wit this death

Deaths Dec 1890 (>99%)
Clements Samuel 66 Westbury 5a 166

1871 Address: Woodside Road, Flaxley
CLEMENTS, Samuel Head M 46 1825 Gloucestershire VIEW
CLEMENTS, Sarah Wife F 50 1821 Gloucestershire VIEW
BRIDGES, Charles Step-Son M 18 1853 Gloucestershire VIEW
YOUNG, Elizth A Step-Daughter F 13 1858 Gloucestershire

I think we can safely discount this one

If the 1871 census I posted earlier is right I have one of Samuels earlier marriages


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Marriages Mar 1869 (>99%)
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Bridges Sarah Westbury S 6a 326
CLEMENTS Samuel Westbury 6a 326

I think we can safely discount this one

I have copied it for you

To add to my previous Thread request. Here is my grandmother's marriage certificate:
Date: 07.02.07 David Harris aged 22/Coal Miner. Address: 57 Victoria Street, Mountain Ash. Father: David Harris/laborer.
Minnie Clements aged 19. Address: 52 Victoria Street, Mountain Ash. Father: Samuel Clements/coal miner.
Looks as if she may have been registered as Winefred/Westbury S in July/August/Sept 1888.

This is the same one in 1881 with another wife and changed his place of birth but same address.
1881 Address: No 11 Woodside Rd, Flaxley
CLEMENTS, Samuel Head Married M 50 1831 Chimney Sweep And Lodging House Keeper
(East Devon)
Gloucestershire
CLEMENTS, Emma Wife Married F 40 1841
Castle Froom
Herefordshire
CLEMENTS, Susan Daughter Single F 16 1865
Rowley
Worcestershire
CLEMENTS, Walter Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar
Kates Hill
Worcestershire
CLEMENTS, Charlie Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar
Cinderford
Gloucestershire
JACKSON, Charles Lodger Married M 35 1846 Umbrella Maker
London, London
Middlesex
FRANCIS, Henry Lodger Single M 26 1855 Blacksmith
Croydon
Surrey
GREEN, Geo Lodger Single M 28 1853 Professor Of Legerdmain (Performer)
London, London
Middlesex
TAYLOR, Thomas Lodger Single M 26 1855 Tailor
Belfast
Ireland
SMITH, Wm Lodger Single M 25 1856 Labourer
London, London
Middlesex
SAVORY, Chas Lodger Married M 25 1856 Labourer
Birmingham
Warwickshire
SAVORY, Annie Lodger Married F 26 1855 Chair Caner
Monmouth
Monmouthshire
SAVORY, Willie Lodger Single M 3 1878 Son
Monmouth
Monmouthshire
WILKINS, John Lodger Single M 23 1858 (Cabinet Maker)
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
JACKSON, Ann Lodger Married F 33 1848 Dressmaker
Bath
Somerset
BASTABLE, Thomas Lodger Married M 35 1846 Coal Miner
Stafford
BASTABLE, Ann Lodger Married F 25 1856 General Serv
Stafford
BASTABLE, Chas Lodger Single M 5 1876
Stafford
BASTABLE, Lydia Lodger Single F 1 1880
Stafford
JACKSON, Louisa Lodger Single F 4 1877
Redditch
Worcestershire
JONES, Wm Lodger Single M 18 1863 Labourer
London, London
Middlesex

I think we can safely discount this one

I have found her mother Selina in 1881 but no Winifred/Minnie

THOMAS, Milson Head Single M 32 1849 Shoemaker
Longhope
Gloucestershire
CLEMENTS, Selina Boarder Widow F 33 1848
East Dean
Gloucestershire
CLEMENTS, Elizabeth Boarder Single F 3 1878
Tredegar
Mon
MEEK, Rachel Boarder Single F 30 1851 At Tin Works (Mfr)
East Dean
Gloucestershire
MEEK, Eliza Jane Boarder Single F 6 1875 Scholar
Blaina
Monmouthshire
JAMES, Alfred Boarder Single M 21 1860 Coal Miner
East Dean
Gloucestershire

This is Selina Meek who married Samuel Clements and is of the right age to be winifred's mother.

Marriage of Samuel and Selina

Marriages Mar 1869 (>99%)

CLEMENTS Samuel Westbury 6a 337

Meek Selina Westbury S 6a 337

This is not making sense.
we know her father is Samuel Clements coalminer from the marriage certificate.

"To add to my previous Thread request. Here is my grandmother's marriage certificate:
Date: 07.02.07 David Harris aged 22/Coal Miner. Address: 57 Victoria Street, Mountain Ash. Father: David Harris/laborer.
Minnie Clements aged 19. Address: 52 Victoria Street, Mountain Ash. Father: Samuel Clements/coal miner."



We know her mother is Selina from 1901 census and that she is aged 54 born forest of dean

"Name: Winifred Clements
Age in 1901: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Selina
Gender: Female
Where born: Forent of Dean, Gloucestershire, England

Civil Parish: Llanwonno
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
Town: Mountain Ash
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales



Registration district: Pontypridd
Sub registration district: Llanwonno
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Selina Clements 54
Thomas George Clements 19
George Clements 17
Winifred Clements 12
Enry Gingston 25 "

I found a selina of right age and place in 1881 but she is a widower therfore cannot be mother of Minnie.
I can only find one Samuel on the local censuses but he appears to have lots of wives/marriages. b
Back to the drawing board!

I have now found Samuel as a single lodger in 1891. His birthplace is given as Mendip Somerset

Westbury-sub-Mendip is a village with a population of about 800, situated on the southern slopes of the Mendip Hills half-way between the cathedral city of Wells and the world-famous Cheddar Gorge. Glastonbury, famous for its Abbey and music festival, is about fifteen minutes away.

1891 Address: 7, Fountain Terrace, Llanwonno, Hafod
MORGRIDGE, Henry Head Married M 42 1849 Coal Miner
Littleham
Devonshire
MORGRIDGE, Elizth Wife Married F 50 1841
St Blazey
Cornwall
SHOPLAND, William Lodger Married M 23 1868 Colliery Stoker
Wellington
Somersetshire
SHOPLAND, Susan Lodger Married F 24 1867
Wellington
Somersetshire
POWELL, Henry Lodger Married M 30 1861 Mason
Wellington
Somersetshire
BADMAN, George Lodger Married M 17 1874 Coal Miner
Mendip
Somersetshire
CLEMENTS, Samuel Lodger Single M 17 1874 Coal Miner
Mendip
Somersetshire

He is a coalminer and now living in the area that his daughter marries in.
But he is much too young and not married. perhaps he is a sibling of Winifred.

Births Jun 1875 (>99%)
CLEMENTS Samuel Clifton 6a 109

This one is registered in clifton

Thanks for your messages Sue/Elizabeth.
To Summarise

Marriage of Samuel and Selina

Marriages Mar 1869 (>99%)

CLEMENTS Samuel Westbury 6a 337

Meek Selina Westbury S 6a 337
This is the correct marriage. Your father remembers the name Meek.

In 1881 Selina is a widower and living with her sisters and 3 year old

We need to trace the older children.

It looks like Selina has had a relationship with another man several years after Samuel's death. Winnie would of course be a Clements because that was her mothers married name. When Winnie married she had not known her father or how long ago he had died so her fathers name was given as Samuel. You will probably never find the true identity of her father unless it is on her birth certificate.
You say her cousins intimated that she was not a Clements.
Next task then is to find Samuels death and the older children. Also track down Selina with her sisters.

I think this is Thomas George in 1891

Institution: Westbury On Severn Union Workhouse, Westbury on Severn Near Newnham Gloucestershire
CLEMENTS, Thomas Pauper Single M 11 1880
Westbury on Severn
Gloucestershire