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Eliza Owen born 1870 Bethnal Green. By 1924 she was Eliza Read living in Mile End. She married a Richard Morris in Bethnal Green in 1889 (I have the marriage cert) and she appears in the 1891 census with Richard and daughter Rosina Maud aged 1. In 1901 she appears in Bethnal Green with William Read and son John but not Rosina. There is another daughter May Elizabeth born later 1901. I simply cannot find her marriage to William Read.

It's all the more confusing because her sister Sarah Owen married Richard's brother Albert also in 1899 and appears in 1901 with a daughter Rosina Maud and in 1900 another sister Maria married a Robert Read - but I can't find any connection between the Read's.

Can anyone help me to solve this puzzle please?

Many thanks

Gai Evans

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Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
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Clark Rebecca Bethnal Green 1c 516
Morris Richard George Bethnal Green 1c 516
OWEN Eliza Bethnal Green 1c 516
TAYLOR Joseph Bethnal Green 1c 516



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any help?

Deaths Jun 1891
Morris Rosina Maud 0 Bethnal Green 1c 207

Births Sep 1890
Morris Rosina Maud Bethnal Green 1c 245

Births Dec 1891
Morris Rosina Maud Bethnal Green 1c 230

what proof do you have that Eliza Read (1901) and Eliza Morris (1891) are the same person

Thanks. I think that solves the Rosina Maud mystery - Eliza's Rosina died before her sisters Rosina was born. I have noticed the same name being used by parents when one has died - it seems strange but I understand it was fairly common.

I have the marriage of Eliza to George Morris already - it's definitely the right Eliza. I have a photocopy of a document dated 1924 - some sot of request for a copy of her birth cert for the employment exchange - where she gives her maiden name as Owen and her name as Read. It also asks for her mother's maiden name so this is definitely the same person. The address on the 1901 census is also in the right place. I still can't find her marriage to William Read.

Thanks!

the closest I can find is this one

Marriages Jun 1898
Cock Herbert Brentford 3a 86
>>>Harris Eliza Brentford 3a 86
Mack Annie Roselyn Brentford 3a 86
>>>Read William Brentford 3a 86

I did wonder if perhaps the original indices had been mis-transcribed (Mo could easikly be misread as Ha) and if it was worth sending for the certificate which from the GRO would be a photocopy of the original not a translation. You could say you only wanted it is the spouse of William Read was Eliza Morris then it would only cost £3 if it was wrong.

That's closer than anything I've managed to find! Wrong area though - they were all living in Bethnal Green area but the date would work - I guess it's worth £3 to find out - thanks!

You make no mention of having found Richard Morris's death............

No - I haven't been able to find that either!

If Richard didn't die............then it is extremely unlikely that Eliza and William actually married..........

OK. I know there was a daughter May Elizabeth Read born 1901 - and I think I have found her birth

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
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READ May Eliza Bethnal G. 1c 230

Would her birth certificate tell me if her parents were married or not??

Sorry - silly question. I guess it will say what Eliza told the registrar!! Not sure if this will help but I think I get the birth cert to see.

Thanks again!

I am not having any luck finding them in 1891 census was just going to post it for ref.

1891 - I only have a note that I have found them - I don't have the print-out. Richard G Morris aged 20 coachman with wife Eliza 20 and Rosina Maud aged 1 at 7 Gardeners Road, Bethnal Green - her parents are at 11 Gardeners Road

1901 - again just a note in my file that I found her - William Read, Eliza Read and John W Read aged 1 in Bethnal Green but I haven't made a note of the address. I may have made a big assumption but I don't think so.

1901....for info

Name: John W Reed
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Eliza
Gender: Male
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: London
Country: England


Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub registration district: Bethnal Green, East
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 279
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Reed 29 b. Bethnal Green
John W Reed 1
William Reed 39 b. St Luke, London

And 1891..............

Name: Eliza Monis
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard J
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabus
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub registration district: Bethnal Green East
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eliza Monis 20
Richard J Monis 20 b. Bethnal Green
Rosina M Monis 8/12

Thanks - I had a note of this - but I didn't record that the name is REED rather than READ. Phonetic searches would pick this up though - right?

Just noticed your 1891 entry is MONIS. I have exactly the same details recorded for MORRIS but Richard is Richard G (not J). Is this a transcript error do you think? Why have we returned slightly different info?

I took the info directly from Ancestry..........Monis is clearly a transcription 'blip'.........BUT the image clearly shows Richard's second initial as 'J'.

I don't know where you got your info.................

Trying a slightly different track - but still need help please!

Eliza's sister Maria married a Robert Joseph Read in1 900. Could this be Williams brother?

Does the 1891 census show a Robert Read aged 14 and William Read aged 19 at same address anywhere in Bethnal Green??