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If Mr. Shirley was a Ship's Doctor, they may have married anywhere outside England an Wales.

If there was not father's name on your father's birth certificate then Frances and her husband may not be blood relatives at all. It looks like Frances was a widow when she "adopted" your father and may have done so by private arrangement. In which case Frances would be your "adopted" grandmother and her mother may be no blood relation to you at all.

nudge

Hi I have my fathers birth certificate which i found when my mother passed away this is when I found out he was adopted by frances his biological mother was on his birth certificate I traced her and the family who had all passed away and had it confirmed by the churchwarden who had known the family well that lily holbrook had two children out of wedlock I traced the other child thinking it will lead me to something but she had also passed away and her husband so it was a dead end again .he was registered as Leslie Street Holbrook that was in 1913 I know sometimes the mother can give a clue in the name who the father was but also researched the Streets in area and cannot find link .
So he was born one name and died another .

I cannot find marriage of frances helen thornton to a mr shirley I have spent years looking her mother died in 1935 and she was mentioned in will as mrs shirley .they were a well to do family in nottingham what really stumped me was finding her in leicester in 1911 .

Madeline, It would be your father who gave the name and occupation of his father on his marriage certificate not his mother. It was not uncommon for illegitimate people to make up a father's name for the sake of appearances.

Do you have your father's birth certificate please? Was his birth registered as Shirley?

There was no formal adoption until 1927 so it may be that Frances was related in some way to your father's natural parents.

Hi rootgatherer that is the mystery over mr Shirley I have my parents original marriage cert in 1940 (they have both passed away )which states mr george shirley as his father doctor of medicine deceased I know my father was adopted by grandma shirley but do not know how she could put his fathers name on marriage cert if he had died before then

Thank you so much for your prompt replies and I will research your information this evening patchem
I am hoping this will help solve what happened to her in those years rootgatherer
I have still not found her marriage and thought the elec roles may help find where my grandmother was living in those years .

1911

Name: Frances Hellen Shirley
Age in 1911: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Nottingham, England
Civil parish: Leicester
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Street Address: 17 Highfield St Leicester
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Commercial Hotel & Boarders House
Registration district: Leicester
Registration District Number: 407
Sub-registration district: North East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 19226
Household Members: Name Age
Frances Hellen Shirley 40
Clara Maud Ball 20



The image says Married 6 years and this has been crossed out and widow written underneath Married.


If Frances was widowed in 1911, I am wondering how Mr. Shirley could father a child born in 1913?

I did a google search to find:

England
1. Ancestry.co.uk has put online a collection of London electoral rolls that covers the period 1835 to 1965 and for Dorset (1839 to 1922).
2. The British Library keeps a complete online collection of UK electoral rolls from 1947 onwards. It also has some 20,000 registers offline covering the period 1832 to 1931. It should always be consulted if you have difficulty finding electoral rolls at the local library.
3. FindMyPast has electoral rolls for Cheshire (1842 to 1900). The big news, however, is that FindMyPast is in the process of digitizing the entire British Library collection of electoral rolls. This massive collection is expected to go online in 2012. Thus, electoral rolls will play a much larger role in UK genealogical research in the future.
4. FamilySearch has electoral rolls for Norfolk (1844 to 1952) and Cheshire (1842 to 1900).
5. The National Archives does not have an online collection of electoral rolls, but it does provide an online guide. To search for local collections of online/offline electoral rolls, use ARCHON.
6. The UK government actually sells its current electoral roll. There are several subscription websites that will allow you to search these more recent lists (FindMyPast’s Living Relatives, ukroll.com, 192.com, tracesmart.co.uk, eroll.co.uk and peopletraceonline.co.uk). None of these websites, however, have electoral rolls that go back more than 25 years from the present.

Still researching this side of my family Does anybody know if I can access electoral roles from 1901 to 1956 online .
regards madeline

Hi all I have been searching many years on my fathers side now and then I have to leave it alone .Frances Helen Shirley nee Thornton was my grandmother on my fathers side I have my parents marriage cert which names george shirley as his father deceased .But I cannot find marriage for frances and george . So I waited with a lot of patience for the 1911 census thinking maybe it would solve everything but no frances Helen shirley is there but has herself as a widow living with her servant maid in leicester things have been crossed out and I cannot make clear how many years she was married for I have her in 1901 living with her brother in carlton notts I have her in beeston notts electoral role in 1906 hence why I am interested in george shirley also in beeston near that time even though on my parents marriage cert he was down as a doctor of medicine and also frances death cert he is down as ships doctor.
her mothers will also has her as shirley in 1935.
Shirley you are certainly getting the hang of it your information is all correct Somehow my grandmother adopted or other my father ernest leslie shirley after he was born in 1913 as leslie street holbrook and yes that was him .I have traced his biological mother who died in 1981 and visited the village where she lived in 1913.after all these years of trying to solve this people say maybe she did not marry mr shirley but she came from a well to do family in nottingham and I to wanted to believe this but her mothers will questioned that and also named my father.
Thanks to all of you for your info on this there is a few things I am going to check on ,
thank you madeline

Name: James Henry Thornton
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Nottingham
County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 640

so Frances is still single in 1901
Name: James H Thornton
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Carlton
Ecclesiastical parish: Gedling All Saints
Town: Carlton
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:Lace Warehouse Manager

Condition as to marriage:single

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Basford
Sub-registration district: Carlton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 53
Household Members: Name Age
James H Thornton 36
Frances H Thornton 31 occ Private Schoolmistess working on own account at Home


Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3160; Folio: 8; Page: 8.

not with James and his family in 1911
THORNTON, James Henry Head Married M 46 1865 Lace Finisher Nottingham VIEW
THORNTON, Mary Elizabeth Annie Wife Wife F 34 1877 Nottingham VIEW
THORNTON, James Robert Son M 5 1906 Nottingham VIEW
THORNTON, Mary Frances Daughter F 4 1907 Nottingham VIEW
ROGERS, Allan Edgar Nephew M 1 1910 Nottingham VIEW
HUNT, Uvy Servant Single F 16 1895 General Servant Domestic Sutton in 0 Ashfield VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20634 Reference:
RG14PN20634 RG78PN1232 RD430 SD5 ED1 SN130

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Bulwell Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Nottingham

Address:
6 Ebers Grove Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire

married 6 years 2 children born

mum on the 1911 census
THORNTON, Ann Mary Head Widow F 72 1839 Culton Le Willows Near Nottingham VIEW
THORNTON, Edgar Albert Son Single M 48 1863 Estate Agent Clerk Nottingham VIEW
THORNTON, Albert Dennis Son Single M 35 1876 Lace Manufacturer Nottingham VIEW
BAINES, Torgina Kate Servant Single F 21 1890 General Servant Domestic Hambleton Nr Oakham Rutland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
20613 Reference:
RG14PN20613 RG78PN1231 RD430 SD4 ED21 SN204

Registration District:
Nottingham Sub District:
Nottingham North West Enumeration District:
21 Parish:
Nottingham

Address:
11 Burns Street Nottingham County:
Nottinghamshire

Births Mar 1868
THORNTON Frances Helen Nottingham 7b 214

so her death age ties with the 1881 census
Name: Frances H Shirley
Death Registration Month/Year: 1956
Age at death (estimated): 88
Registration district: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 3c
Page: 397

is this dad?
Name: Ernest Leslie Shirley
Birth Date: 16 Jan 1913
Death Registration Month/Year: 1970
Registration district: Derby
Inferred County: Derbyshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 649

not sure on this one as Frances would have been c 45 not impossible but cant see any marriage for her to Mr Shirley

this her? 1881

Ann Mary THORNTON Head W Female 42 Gedling, Nottingham, England Lets Appartments
William E. THORNTON Son U Male 19 St Mary, Nottingham, England Engineer Draughtsman (E & M Maker)
Edgar A. THORNTON Son U Male 18 Nottingham, England Builders Clerk
James H. THORNTON Son U Male 16 Nottingham, England Lace Manufacturers (Apprentice)
Eliza D. THORNTON Daur U Female 15 Nottingham, England Scholar
Frances H. THORNTON Daur U Female 13 Nottingham, England Scholar
Charles THORNTON Son U Male 4 Basford, Nottingham, England
Albert D. THORNTON Son U Male 6 Basford, Nottingham, England
Ann BARTON Serv U Female 22 Handley, Stafford, England General Domestic Serv
William WATSON Boarder M Male 46 Donington, Lincoln, England Annuitant
Elizabeth WATSON Boarder M Female 46 Waltham, Leicester, England Annuitant


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 20 Shakespeare St
Census Place Nottingham St Mary, Nottingham, England
Family History Library Film 1341800
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3351 / 54
Page Number 46

thers been loads of new records to come online since 2004.have you looked at any census or FreeBMd for births etc

you've been gone a long time!!

do you have a birth date for Frances?