General Chat

Heh, Deanna -- I wonder whether your mother's visitor was a thief who had been lucky enough to steal a wallet with that permit in it, and decided to take a quicker route to easy money!

I think we are all entitled to use our money as we like -- I mean "us" as well as people we give it to.

I contributed enough to the booze industry in three years of supporting ... being exploited and robbed by ... an alcoholic. I don't deal well with the whole issue now. I don't give money to people on the street who are obviously using it for alcohol. Where I'm at, there are food and shelter programs that I would never want to have to use myself, but I know that the people in question are not dependent on my handouts for survival.

Several years ago I had neighbours across the street who were on social assistance, which, here in Ontario, didn't pay the rent, let alone groceries. Their job was panhandling. They went out to work every day. They were alcoholics. They also grew veg in their tiny back garden and in pots in their driveway, and gave some away, and played Beatles tunes on a Sunday afternoon, and were generally good neighbours. ... Until she finally made him move out (long story; he wasn't as good a husband as a neighbour), and he came back one day when she was away and had a barbecue, and left the hibachi on the porch, and pretty much burned the house down ...

Anyhow. I think we all get to choose what we do with our money. I just don't think that tales of what any particular person may do with his/her money is a good basis for deciding how to treat other people in similar circumstances.

I just hope that nobody looks at whoever is wearing the very expensive but too well-worn down parka of my partner's that we gave to the lunch program at the church down the street last year and thinks Huh, he can obviously afford a good meal ...

I agree they are earning their money dont they have the right to spend it how they wish? Its a bit like your boss deciding not to pay you cos you want to go out one night and he would rather you spent it on something else.

Yes they may spend it on alcohol or other things that some would not want their money to be spent on but these are people who have no outgoings and due to circumstances which we do not know are homeless and many have other problems. This could happen to any one of us so who are we to judge.

I have never seen a homeless person in designer gear either.

But Kathryn, your story reminded me of my mother.
in the late sixties when she lived in Scotland, a young woman knocked on the door and gave her a card saying.... she was deaf, and she had a permit which my mother read. my mother handed it back and said she was sorry but she had no money. The girl tried to stop my mum from shutting the door, but my mother managed to do it.
the girl then lifted the letterbox and showered my mother with some of the filthiest abuse you could think of!!

That is also a true story, but NOT ALL the
people on the streets are crooks. and I hope none of mine, or I never ever find myself in a position where We have to beg.
And if ever we do.... god forbid, I hope people will be kind to us.

Deanna X

Yes Colin that is the whole idea of them selling it, to earn money and give themselves some self respect. Apparently so many of them have dogs for protection, the dogs look after them and give them friendship and company. I believe the foundation registers the dogs with The Dog's Trust so that they can have their injections and see a vet if necessary.

Ann
Glos

There is a very nice elderly gentleman who stands outside the local supermarket and even if I don't want a copy I will give him some change if I have it as he is always very polite to passersby.

The ones I steer a wide berth from are those that come with the dog on a rope and a can of extra strong lager in tow.

Aileen xxx

Surely by buying the Big Issue and selling it on for a profit they are in reality 'earning money' and should be able to spend it exactly as they want. I speak to a 'down and out' in town from time to time who doesnt ask for anything he just sits outside a closed shop with his dog. I bought him a pasty from the bakers one day and he was grateful as he shared it with his dog. Next time I spoke to him he was so upset as after I had left someone accused him of begging saying if he could afford to feed his dog a pasty he could afford a roof over his head.....You just cant judge unless you have all the facts

I suppose the problem is that they would possibly not be where they are if they didn't have problems, and one of the main ones is alcohol. If you have nothing you look to something for comfort. as to the taxi, who knows if the taxi driver knew them and took pity. at least they were sharing, maybe they were going to another town to sell the bI, maybe they therefore had the fare given to them to travel there by taxi. at least if they were paying for it they had earned the money. We can't criticize when we don't know the full facts really can we?

Ann
Glos

Used to buy them regularly when I lived near a big city. Now live in a small(ish) town and dont buy them any more. The reason - I work in an Offy and regularly see the towns three BI sellers in the shop buying (and nicking) strong lager and cheap sherry. Two weeks ago I saw all three get in a taxi, with their dogs. I can't afford to pay taxi fares!!

Not saying they are all the same just speaking about my own experience.

Libby

The only time I've been the victim of an 'in the flesh' scam was in USA (Washington DC) - and she was very good, almost worthy of 'Hustle', if you've seen it! What did I do? Gave her the money of course, it was just the 2 of us in the Ladies loos in a large bookshop and nowhere to go for 'help'!

Sorry - gone off topic! I do buy the Big Issue now and again, but don't visit town very often at the moment - sellers in Bath always polite and smiling.

Wanna hear a real fake-beggar story?

In 1994 my mum and I visited England from Canada for 2 weeks. One evening, after an exhausting day of touring Brighton and taking the train back to London, we were sitting on the tube staring vacantly into space. A young woman suddenly planted herself in front of me, looked pathetic, and handed me a note. It said she could not hear or speak, her father was dead, blah blah. Oh, and she needed me to give her money.

Well, I can spot a scam when I see one. Sometimes. What I could spot was the English syntax and handwriting of a person whose mother tongue is Farsi -- a person from Iran. And I just happened to speak a little Farsi. A very little. So without thinking much, I said to her, in Farsi, "You're Iranian?" I think I even repeated it.

Yes, I was asking the hearing disabled, mute person a question.

Another young woman then appeared next to her, and began screeching at me ... in Farsi. Well, my Farsi wasn't that good. I just figured she was calling me bad names for outing a fellow Iranian peacefully engaged in scamming tube riders.

This went on until the next stop, where they exited. All eyes in the car were on me, at that point.

It then occurred to me that the person I had been talking to someone was supposedly unable to hear me; I just hadn't taken that part seriously to start with. Had I been nasty to a genuine disabled person?? So I asked my mum: When I spoke to her, did she look surprised? Oh yes, my mum said, she looked verrry surprised.

So I hadn't actually been unspeakably rude to a genuine disabled person, and that was a relief! It's one reason I tend to let myself be gullible in many such situations. It always seems that the time one picks to be hard-nosed is the time one regrets it.

and just to add,

I have said before ( on a thread of Errols) that it could so easily happen to any of us....due to family breakdown, financial problems, mental problems or addiction.

"There but for the grace of God go I ".

Rosex

thanks for that Rose.

Ann
Glos

I buy the Big issue when ever I visit a town....

I have been sold them by young women, thin and frail ....young men ,who are obviously trying to get their life back on track...

i have bought it in fair weather and on the coldest, wettest most vile day imaginable.

Not once has the vendor neglected to thank me and been anything other than friendly ....and if for some reason i have been unable to buy it they have always said 'thankyou' anyway.

The BI founder was on the radio this morning...explaining how the sales help the homeless in many different ways...
I believe that 1.2 million people
purchase it.

Rosex

Thanks, Colin. Facts beat anecdotes any day.

The Big Issue is sold by homeless and vulnerably housed people. In order to sell the magazine a potential vendor will need to prove they are homeless, by showing receipts from any hostels that they have been staying in or a letter of referral. There have been cases were bone fide vendors have had their magazines stolen from them under threat of being assulted if they didn't hand them over. If you see someone selling them and feel they shouldnt be then contact the Big Issue Foundation.

I have seen homeless people wearing designer clothes but who knows these items could of been donated to a charity and passed on. Id rather keep buying the mag and give these people the benifit of doubt than judge without getting the full story.

Well the ones in Gloucester don't have designer gear. They are supposed to follow a code of conduct, yes some are alcoholics, some drug addicts, most trying to get clean. maybe the one you saw was not a proper registered seller. You should have taken his number and queried it with the organisation. You shouldn't tar them all with the same brush.

ann

Glos

pmsl Colin thats like the one near me on says the three words.
Dave

Yes buy the Big Issue but usually give above the cover price (when I worked in the city I used to buy it at lunchtime read it over lunch then give it the vender back to sell again on the way back to work). Yes Dave there are a lot of Eastern Europeans selling them in the midlands - one woman only speaks 3 words of English 'Big Issue Pleeeze' Again I dont mean that in a racist way

Yes I just bought one outside central library in Manchester, but has anyone noticed how many asians are now selling them? Dont mean this in racist way.
Davex