General Chat

a new Pope??? I'm not Catholic, but i'm finding the whole thing interesting. I've never seen any of this before as John Paul II has been Pope ever since i was born. Just wondering...c..x

Thanks Penny, Shall keep my eyes on the news then! c x

The group in question is the Cardinals. England has one, but i don't remember his name. Alan

from the net: The clamour of bells from Saint Peter's will accompany the traditional white smoke from the Sistine Chapel to announce the election of the next Pope, the Vatican said today, announcing a break with tradition in how the momentous event is announced. 'The bells will ring festively,' said Italian bishop Piero Marini, who is master of papal liturgical ceremonies at the Vatican. 'That way, journalists will know,' he added, smiling. The smoke - white for yes, black for not yet - emerged grey in 1978 after the election of John Paul I, leading to confusion among journalists and the public, which lasted until a senior cardinal emerged onto a balcony to shout: 'Habemus Papam' (We have a Pope). That age-old Latin acclamation will remain, but Marini signalled other important shifts to modernity in a news conference at the Vatican. For the first time in history, the cardinals who will elect a successor to Pope John Paul II will not be totally isolated in one building during the conclave, Marini said. Cardinals will now be able to move throughout the Vatican for the duration of the conclave, which could last days. Though the balloting takes place in the Sistine Chapel, named after 15th century Pope Sixtus IV, the cardinals are quartered in a purpose-built Santa Marta residence, built in the mid-1990s. Marini said they would be free to move between their residence, various chapels and the Sistine Chapel where they will meet behind closed doors to elect John Paul II's successor. The cardinals will thus have some freedom to roam, to reflect. The Vatican gardens are, after all, perhaps the most peaceful in Rome. 'It's a new experience, based on common sense,' said Marini. Just a few hundred yards (metres) from the splendour of the Sistine Chapel, the hotel-like 'Casa Santa Marta' is another break with the past, boasting 107 suites and 23 single rooms served by attentive staff. John Paul II himself had suffered the comparatively ascetic deprivations of the old Apostolic Palace accommodations where cardinals were housed for the two most recent conclaves in 1978. Washing facilities were a pitcher and washbowl, and for those unwilling to use the chamber pot under the iron bed, the toilets were down the hall. The pope, in his strict rules laid down in 1996 about the holding of the next conclave, says cardinals 'must refrain from receiving or sending messages of any kind outside Vatican City' during the conclave. 'It is specifically prohibited to the Cardinal electors, for the entire duration of the election, to receive newspapers or periodicals of any sort, to listen to the radio or to watch television,' it says. That means phone and fax connections to their residence will be cut off. The penalty for those who 'violate secrecy' surrounding the conclave, John Paul II pointed out, is excommunication. A conclave - literally 'with key' in Latin - signifies that the cardinals are locked up during the vote. Ironically, as conditions for cardinals have improved, conclaves, by and large, have become less arduous. It took cardinals 70 days to elect Celestine IV in 1241. Later that century, Pope Gregory X prescribed that food rations for the cardinals would gradually be cut if no decision was reached after three days. Bread and water would be the staple if it went beyond eight days. John Paul II was elected after four days, John Paul I just one day.

PS Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster. :-) Joy

Thanks all for the info. I've heard of Cardinals, but that was in a Billy Connolly joke! c x

I have saved on computer the homily / sermon that was given by Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, at Solemn Vespers for the Dead in commemoration of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, held at Westminster Cathedral on 4th April, and would happily put it here if you would like it. :-) Joy

Yes please Joy, i can read it thru my lunch (not that i'm doing much work now!!) c x

If you like thrillers, have a read of 'Angels & Demons' (guy who wrote 'The DaVinci Code') - goes into all the process of electing a Pope, of course dressed up with some 'action'!

Homily by Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, at Solemn Vespers for the Dead in commemoration of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, held at Westminster Cathedral at 1630 on 4th April 2005. My dear brothers and sisters, thank you for coming here this evening to commemorate the life of Pope John Paul II. We have gathered to pray for the repose of his soul. We pray that God will welcome this, his servant, into the communion of eternal life with Him. And we have also come to thank God for the extraordinary gift that Karol Wojtyla, John Paul II, has been for the Church and for the world. So many tributes have been paid to him these last days that it seems futile to try to add to them. He was, unquestionably, one of the great Christian figures of our time, whose close relationship with God shone always through the extraordinary witness to truth and to hope. That witness he gave in the midst of our age’s greatest horrors and challenges. This was an epic papacy, which shall be remembered, always, for the remarkable strength of character and persistence with which Pope John Paul proclaimed the values of the Kingdom of God. It is a great testament to the power of that witness that so many of this nation’s leaders are here today to pay tribute to him, and to add their thanks to that of the millions who in these past days have assembled across the globe in respectful silence. Indeed, dear brothers and sisters, the response of so many millions, of all faiths and none, of different races and ages, to the passing of the Polish Pope has been simply overwhelming. It has left me deeply moved at times, and full of gratitude. I leave for Rome tonight uplifted by this response. For if one man’s dying can evoke such an outpouring of love and gratitude then it is true: we are all in God’s hands. You have heard him described as God’s athlete, and so he was. He loved nothing better than hillwalking and cross-country skiing. There is a story told of him, that when he was Cardinal Archbishop of Krakow he once skiied, without realising, up to the border of what was then Czechoslovakia. The border patrol demanded to see his papers, then became furious with him. “You silly man, do you realise whose identity papers you’ve stolen? Pretending to be the Cardinal Archbishop of Krakow! This” the guard said, “is going to put you away for a very long time.” “But I assure you,” said the future Pope, “I am the Cardinal Archbishop of Krakow.” And the militiaman snorted: “A cardinal who skis?” “Do you think I’m crazy?” After he was elected, he was delighted by the apparent incongruity of his office and his favourite sport. “How many Popes since St. Peter have been able to ski?” he mischievously asked reporters. “Answer: One!” And so it was characteristic that he did not see his election to the See of Peter in 1978 as a confinement, but an invitation to go global. His was a papacy made for the age of air miles. “The Pope can’t remain a prisoner in the Vatican”, he once said. “I want to go to everybody ... from the nomads in the steppes to the monks and nuns in their convents … I want to cross the threshold of every home.” These last few days have shown the extent to which that ambition was achieved. Having crossed the world for so long, in his last years the world crossed back to him, gathering round his bed of pain to give thanks. That is why the abiding image of his papacy may well be the final one: of St Peter’s Square on Friday night filled with young people standing in serene silence. There was in that square a great stillness; the Lord was coming to take his servant to the reward prepared for him; and it was enough to be close to that fading life on Friday night to feel the nearness of God to us all. There are many great statesmen and women assembled this afternoon in this place. You who have been part of history unfolding have come to pay tribute to one who understood that beneath that unfolding is a divine design. When he was elected in 1978, John Paul II believed that the Holy Spirit was summoning not one particular individual but the Polish Church to which he belonged, and its experience of clinging tenaciously to the Gospel in the face of official atheism and totalitarian oppression. We know just how important that witness became when Karol Wojtyla visited his homeland again for the first time as Pope, triggering a fever for freedom that would soon sweep across iron curtains and armed borders. But the Polish Pope was just as tenacious in his challenge to a western world locked in its own forms of oppression – the idolatry of the marketplace, the quicksand of relativism, the subjection of human life to the god of individual self-fulfillment. For all that people have tried to place him in categories of right and left, radical and conservative, Pope John Paul II confounded them time and time again. He was too big for those categories, because, simply, he preached Christ crucified and risen, and all that flowed from that magnificent fact: the indestructible human dignity of human beings created by God. Why was he such a powerful witness to that dignity? What made the messenger so coherent with his message? It was, I think, two salient facts about his life. The first was that he experienced suffering at an early age: all around him in wartime Poland was death: the crushing of millions and millions of lives, incalculable devastation, and the persecution of the Jewish people to whom he was always close. The second was his relationship with God. A man of deep prayer, he breathed intimacy with God; he radiated stillness; at the core of his being was the rock of the divine presence, which left him impervious to the winds above. Both of these facts made him what he was. To be exposed to suffering without the rock of faith can lead to despair and disillusionment. But with a life of faith - with the knowledge of the resurrection without which, as St Paul says in our reading today, our preaching is in vain - that experience of suffering can breed a desire to defend and nurture the flame of freedom and dignity. As the Pope himself put it, in that passage in his book Crossing the Threshold of Hope which is quoted in your booklets, “The awareness of these dangers does not generate pessimism, but rather encourages the struggle for the victory of good in every realm.” Dear friends, that is why Pope John Paul II made no fewer than thirteen visits to Africa – to plead for the dignity of the African people not to be drowned by poverty and war. That is why he called for the forgiveness of debt, and for the deepening of human solidarity. That is why he set his face against attempts to extinguish human life in the womb or to experiment with such life in the test tube. That is why he called on totalitarian regimes everywhere to free their peoples . That is why in every circumstance, he pleaded for peace; that is why he pleaded for the lives of prisoners on Death Row, and why he always placed the universal Church at the service of the weakest and the most vulnerable and those who have no one to plead for them. And that is why he has been described as one of history’s greatest Christians, and we shall surely be calling him Pope John Paul the Great. Karol Wojtyla’s later years were ones of fragility and vulnerability. That is when his words began to become fewer and his message more direct. When he no longer needed words, the world came close to him as never before. Even though we saw less of him, he became, in some ways, more accessible – an embodiment of simply humanity. The God-given core of every human being which he had dedicated himself to defend became more and more evident. Now confined in his frailty

I read the Da Vinci Code last week - it was fantastic! I bought it on Wednesday and had finished it by Saturday. I couldn't put it down. I intend on buying more of them. although i should be revising for May exams, but Ops Management text books are sooooo boring in comparison! c x

Thanks Joy.....shall have a look at that in a bit c x

The Cardinals are meeting today. Joy

Hi Joy! I noticed that this mornin, so i'm back on pope watch again! c x

Tongue in cheek!!!! Decisions, decisions............

from the net: Black smoke has wafted from the Sistine Chapel's chimney in Vatican City, signalling that the cardinals holding the first papal conclave of the new millennium had held their first vote - but failed to elect a new leader for the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics. Vatican Radio pronounced the smoke black, meaning the 115 voting 'princes'' of the church would retire for the night and return to the chapel tomorrow morning for two more rounds of balloting in their search for a successor to Pope John Paul II. If those rounds fail to produce a pope, the cardinals will hold two additional rounds tomorrow afternoon. Some 40,000 people who packed St Peter's Square to stare at the stovepipe jutting from the chapel roof shouted 'It's black! It's black!'' and snapped photos. As the smoke began pouring from the chimney, shouts of 'E bianco! E bianco!'' ('It's white! It's white!'') rippled through the crowd packing St Peter's Square. But the cries quickly gave way to sighs of disappointment as the smoke became clearly black. The excitement had built as darkness set in and pilgrims watched close-ups of the chimney on giant video screens. The cardinals, from six continents and representing 52 countries, began their secret deliberations late this afternoon after the massive doors of the chapel, which is decorated with frescoes by Michelangelo and wired with electronic jamming devices to thwart eavesdropping, were ceremonially closed. There was initial confusion when a Vatican Radio commentator said, 'It seems white,'' as the first puffs emerged from the chimney. But as thick, darker smoke followed, the station proclaimed it black. 'It looks like the stove wasn't working well at first,'' an announcer joked a few minutes later.

I have the radio on today so hopefully if anything happens I'll know about it! c x

Hi Claire We are Methodists but our son attends a Catholic secondary school and, like you, I am finding this very interesting. My son read the Da Vinci code and enjoyed it so much that we got him Angels & Demons and the Deception Point at the weekend ... they are half price in WH Smith at the moment if you're interested. My husband was telling us that the Papal Ring gets ceremonially broken - this tradition goes back many years and is apparently to stop imposters from stealing the ring and posing as the Pope. Mandy :)

You are right, Mandy. The Pope's ring has been destroyed. from the net today: Roman Catholic cardinals have begun a second day of their conclave to choose a new pope. The failure of the 115 cardinals to reach a two-thirds majority was signalled on Monday by the black smoke which emerged from the Sistine Chapel. The cardinals are shut off from the outside until they chose a successor to Pope John Paul II, who died on 2 April. They spent the night in a hotel within the Vatican's walls before restarting conclave at around 0900 (0700GMT). Up to four ballots are held each day, and the ballot papers are burned in a stove after every second vote. Chemicals are added to colour the smoke - black smoke signals failure to agree on a candidate, while white smoke means a new pope has been chosen. This time the white smoke will be accompanied by the ringing of the bells of St Peter's Basilica. Smoke - black or white - will be expected around noon (1000 GMT) on Tuesday. CONCLAVE FACTS Electors 115 cardinals take part Two other eligible cardinals are too ill to attend Must be aged under 80 Come from 52 countries 58 from Europe Italy (20) and US (11) Daily schedule 0730: Cardinals celebrate Mass in hotel 0900: Morning voting starts 1600: Afternoon voting starts 1200 & 1900: Ballot papers burned, generating smoke All times local (GMT+2) It had not been certain that the cardinals would even hold a ballot on the first day of the conclave. Experts had predicted that even if they did so the chance of a pope being elected on the first ballot was extremely remote. Strict security measures have been imposed to ensure the secrecy of the conclave is kept. Parts of the Vatican have been sealed off, and all staff who will come into contact with the cardinals have taken a vow not to divulge anything of what they see or hear. Mobile phones, newspapers and television are banned, and the Sistine Chapel has been swept to check for bugging devices.

Hi Mandy, I'm hooked! I think it's all come from reading the Da Vinci Code! I bought another one the other day, but can't think of the name of it. I has something that looks like a vault door on the front of it. I wanted a copy of Angels & Demons but they hadn't got it, so i'll be visiting Smiths at the weekend. c x ps Tesco and Asda have cheap books, only paid £3.75 for my copies.