General Chat

There you go Dee!!! And Phil invented the spec with a torch !!! lol :0) Joan xxx

Thanks for adding that Monica, certainly seems that part of the programme was accurate then Dee xx

Just found this on speculums - the stuff you learn through these boards!!! From www[.]mssm[.]edu/misc/history[.]shtml History of Minimally Invasive Surgery The early history of laparoscopy is unknown to many surgeons, but endoscopy was first described by Hippocrates in Greece (460-375 BC . He made reference to a rectal speculum. The first simple speculum for gynecological endoscopy dates from about the same time. Roman medicine also produced instruments with which they could inspect internal organs. In Pompeii's ruins (70 AD), a three-bladed vaginal speculum was found; this instrument was similar to the modern vaginal speculum. Thus, the interest for physicians to look into the 'internal organs' has existed since the early days of medicine. The credit for modern endoscopy belongs to Philipp Bozzini (1773-1809). He developed a light conductor which he called 'Lichtleiter' to avoid the problems of inadequate illumination. This early endoscope directed light into the internal cavities of the body and redirected to the eye of the observer. Monica

Joe That was a brilliant sketch wasn't it, almost timeless I would say Dee ;-))

Having read dates that forks were introduced makes me wonder how old the Fork Handles sketch is ?

CB and Davo The reference book you mention sounds fascinating. I must admit I still tend to refer to books for information. When I was studying last year I was amazed at how much of the stuff I found on the internet was inaccurate. It is very difficult to know which sites are reliable. Dee xx

CB Yes, my dad bought it at an exhibition, I think the Ideal Home. It cost more than a week's wages, I believe, which made him not very popular as money was tight then. He called it Waverley's as that was the publisher. I find the history day by day section very interesting. I did have the infopaedia, from a cover disk, which I think included F & W's David

So was I Dee! All that was missing was a torch!!! pmsl! :0) Joan xxxx

Seriously though Joan, I was a bit surprised at the opening scene, and hadn't realised they were that technologically advanced back then. Dee xx

Dee :0) Paul, go dust your widescreen he he !!!!! :0) Joanxx

Joan Shall I change the thread heading? When did they first use forks and speculums? LOL Dee xx

fork knows ! (I'll get me coat)

Morning Dee!!! I wondered that when watching it too!!!! I don't think they used a knife & fork at the same time that early either!! Another question for you. Did they really do gynae exams then too? I couldn't believe what I was seeing!! When was the speculum invented? lol :0) Joanxxx

Davo!!! Have YOU got Funk & Wagnall's too??? I've inherited the 1948 2-Volume set from my parents, but apart from Rowan & Martin's Laugh-in TV show (American), I've never heard them mentioned anywhere else. Throughout my life I've gone to 'Look it up in your Funk & Wagnall's'! LOL CB >|<

Fork, n (2) A pronged table utensil for conveying food to the mouth, or for use with a knife for cutting the food. 'While with their knife....they cut their meate....they fasten their forke....upon the same dish....this forme of feeding I understand is generally used in all places in Italy, their forkes being for the most part made of yron or steele, and some of silver, but those are used only by gentlemen. [1608] CORYAT 'crudities' vol i p. 106 [Cor 1776]' from Funk & Wagnels New Standard Dictionary, 1947

Hi CB Good job I have Jeeves, I had to look up Morton's Fork!!! For anyone else who wondered what it refers to here is what I found: Morton's Fork is an expression that describes a choice between two equally unpleasant alternatives, or two lines of reasoning that lead to the same unpleasant conclusion. It is analogous to the expressions 'between the devil and the deep sea' or 'from the frying pan to the fire'. The expression originates from a policy of tax collection devised by John Morton, Lord Chancellor 1487, under the rule of Henry VII. His approach was that if the subject lived in luxury and had clearly spent a lot of money on himself, he obviously had sufficient income to spare for the king. Alternatively, if the subject lived frugally, and showed no sign of being wealthy, he must have had substantial savings and could therefore afford to give it to the king. These arguments were the two prongs of the fork and regardless of whether the subject was rich or poor, he didn't have a favourable choice Dee xx

I have found - Used in the far east from 7th c.(with two prongs). On Royal European tables since 14thc , mainly as serving items, emerged as major items of cutlery from early 17th c.(with more prongs.). Ben Johnson sang their praises in 1616 - 'Forks, what be they? The laudable use of forks Brought into custom here,as they are in Italy, To the sparing of napkins.' (just trying to get my teenager to appreciate them - or any cutlery! lol !) Elaine x.

Well I have just asked my friend Jeeves, and he has come up with this: The fork was the last dinner utensil to be adopted by diners. It was first used as a personal utensil by nobility in the Middle East in the 7th century. From there, it made its way into Europe in the 11th century, but was slow to catch on. Italians mainly used it for a serving fork to transfer food onto their plates, then used their fingers to eat. By the 16th century, however, most Italians were using table forks. In France, it is believed that the wife of King Henry II, Catherine de Medicis, introduced the fork from Italy to France in 1533. It was also slow to catch on there with the general public. In 1607, Thomas Coryate, returning from Italy, introduced the table fork to England. At first forks were used in England only by the wealthy. They were considered to be pretentious by the general public, and unnecessary when you had fingers. However, they gradually caught on and were commonly used by the populace by the end of the 18th century. ------------------------------------------------ Just goes to show that the continentals were far more sophisticated than us. It also seems to point to the fact that Elizabeth would probably not have used one, if my dates are right Dee xx

Thanks Dee, I also like to get to the cause of things which seem unusual, hence my question. Best wishes Mike

Mike I am a very talented lady LOL actually the screen freezes, I press refresh, and hey presto I appear twice. Dee xx