General Chat

Sue Times certainly have changed. I can remember my mother encouraging me to mix with children who had measles, chicken pox and the like. Her reasoning was that it was 'best to catch them while you were young' Dee x

I contacted Rubella when I was 13 and now have a lifelong immunity to it. When my two daughters were offered a Rubella vaccination (pre MMR), I was told they would have to have a booster at around 20 years old. My argument was - why vaccinate when immunity only lasts a relatively short time? Both my daughters have had Rubella in their teens, with no ill-effects, and both now have lifelong immunity. Elder son had Measles jab in 1973, despite an allergy to eggs, and suffered badly. I was told later by my GP that he should never have been given the jab. Elder daughter wasn't given jab, or Whooping Cough jab, because of her excema. She contacted Measles from a friend at playgroup (who had been immunised), and although she was quite ill with it, has no after effects. In fact her immunised friend was much more ill. Younger daughter had triple vaccine and Measles jab as did younger son, both with no ill effects. When younger son was 6, combined MMR vaccine was introduced and I refused to have him done on the grounds that he had already had his Measles jab. Nobody could tell me if or what his reaction might be to more Measles vaccine or why it was needed. At this time I was childminding a lovely little boy, who was very bright and alert - until he had his MMR vaccine. He changed almost overnight - he stopped speaking, his movements became jerky and he became very introverted. He later was diagnosed with a form of autism. Privately his parents were told the MMR vaccine was a probable cause, but of course this was never publicly admitted. None of my 4 grandchildren have had the combined MMR vaccine, their parents think it is just too much to inflict on a baby's body at such a young age - and I have to say that I agree with them, probably because we have seen the effect it had on one small boy.. I had chicken pox, measles, mumps and rubella as a child, as did my husband and my brother and none of us suffered any lasting effects. We probably were very lucky if the publicity surrounding the benefits of the combined MMR vaccine is true. Our parents held measles/mumps/chicken pox parties when all the local children got together because it was thought it was better to have these diseases in childhood and get them over with! How times have changed! Sue xx

Julie, I can't say I am happy about a child being put under that sort of pressure I noticed Diane said earlier that her GP surgery is 'cool' towards her following her decision. I t would concern me if I thought that teachers would make life difficult for a child who for some reason didn't conform Dee x

sons come home last week with letter from school saying they need mmr updated a booster jab if they get mumps its bad in this age and all the scare mongering reports with the letter anyway, i werent gona let him have it as its jabs for this jabs for that came home from work friday and hed got hubby to sign it and took it in, he says he wants the jab he dont want mumps, so it seems theyve got to the kids in school too makes you feel useless

My son contracted rubella as a baby, before he was due to have his MMR at one year old as was then the practice. Thank god he didn't have any of the nasty complications but It still took over a year for the glands in his neck and head to return to normal size. We had to keep taking him for checkups and he looked like he had horns. I read somewhere that to keep people in general safe from a disease there has to be certain percentage of successful vaccination in the population - over 90% I think - to prevent an epidemic. We aren't anywhere meeting that. And you aren't absolutely safe if you've had your child vaccinated if the overall levels of vaccination are too low because of those vaccinated only (and I'm hazy on the figures) 90 percentish actually develop the antibodies to protect them. What is the most important thing is that everyone who medically can be is vaccinated to protect those for whom the vaccination doesn't work. So vaccination is not just about your own kids health but about all kids health. And those people that advise individual vaccinations are causing probably uncessary anxiety and distress in my opinion. From what I've read individual vaccines are no better than combined ones and the child has to cope with 2 or 3 stressful injections when one would have sufficed. Both my kids are fully vaccinated. After seeing what rubella did to my son even without complications I wasn't taking any risks. Angela

Some very valid points made and I agree with Blue, it would be nice to see all the childhood diseases eradicated like Smallpox was I'm not sure, but think, that the smallpox programme had adverse effects on some children, I suspect all these programmes have some failings Dee x

I know I'm bound to upset and anger some people and I want to appoligies now before I start, BUT I do feel that unless there is a valid medical reason (allergies to ingradients) that ALL children should have the MMR regardless of gender! I made a big song and dance at being told I had to have the MR (measle, rubella double) when I was 12 but then last year we had an out break of mumps at Uni so I had the triple MMR. The reason all children need to be immunised is to develop herd immunity to the diseases. At the end of the day there is no proven reason that MMR has any majior side effects and the diseases can caurse serious complications. There is no evidence that the single vaccinations are any safer, in fact the triple is if anything the safest as it protects the child against all 3 illnesses in one go. Please Please Please try to remember that your not only protecting your children from these nasty diseases but also your grandchildren and their children. MUMPS causes swelling to the glands in the neck And may be swelling around the ovaries (in girls) or testes (in boys after puberty) - I have seen a boy with mumps whos testes were swollen and he was in agony!!! ***Complications*** Most cases of mumps are mild, but when complications occur they can be serious. About 1 in 4 adolescent boys or adult men with mumps develop an inflammation of one or both testes (orchitis). This inflammation can be very painful and if it affects both testes, there is some evidence to suggest it may lead to sterility. More rarely, around 5% of females with mumps may experience swelling of the ovaries (oophritis). Brain inflammation (encephalitis) and inflammation of the meninges (meningitis) occasionally occurs. Other parts of the body such as the pancreas and thyroid may also be inflamed, which can be painful. Another rare complication of mumps is deafness in one ear, but this only happens in around one in 15,000 cases. Pregnant women who develop mumps in the first 3 months of pregnancy (the first trimester) have a slightly higher risk of miscarriage, but there is no evidence that mumps can cause deformities in an unborn child. Not forgetting sterility partically in boys. RUBELLA ***Complications*** If a pregnant woman who is not immune comes into contact with the rubella virus, her baby can be seriously affected. This is especially the case in the first 16 weeks of pregnancy. The virus can lead miscarriage, stillbirth or a range of birth defects including deafness, mental retardation, heart defects and cataracts. If you do come into contact with rubella and you have any of the symptoms such as a rash you should see your GP. They will be able to diagnose rubella and may offer you a test to see if your baby has been affected. If this is the case, you will be encouraged to have some counselling and talk to you GP, nurse or midwife and your partner. There are a number of options available to parents who are expecting a baby affected by rubella. Very rarely, the virus that causes rubella will cause an inflammation of the brain (encephalitis) or bleeding disorders. MEASLES ***Complications*** Complications are more likely in children with a weakened immune system, such as those with leukaemia or AIDS, and children with a poor diet. Some of the common complications related to measles are: * Diarrhoea; * Vomiting; * Eye infection (conjunctivits); * Inflammation of the voicebox (laryngitis); * Inner ear infection and inflammation (otitis media) - often with earache; and * Fits due to fever (febrile convulsions) – brought on by fever and high temperature. They are alarming but not usually dangerous. Less common complications include: * Meningitis; * Pneumonia (lung infection) – signs are fast, laboured breathing, chest pain, deteriorating condition; * Hepatitis; * Encephalitis (inflammation of the brain) - can be fatal, so you should watch for drowsiness, headache, and vomiting; * Low platelet (white blood cell) count – known medically as thrombocytopenia, which affects the blood's ability to clot; * Bronchitis and croup (infection of the airways) – hacking, barking cough; and * Squint – the virus may affect eye nerves and muscles. Rarely, measles can lead to: * Serious eye disorders; * Heart and nervous system problems; and * Very rarely, a serious brain complication can occur (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis), sometimes years later. If you are planning to get pregnant, and haven’t had measles yet, you should arrange with your GP to have the MMR vaccine. If you catch measles during pregnancy it can pass to your baby, and can be very damaging or fatal. Measles in pregnancy can cause miscarriage, premature labour or a baby with low birth weight. The MMR jab cannot be given during pregnancy.

Unfortunately the experts don't even seem to agree on the dangers and advantages. I do sometimes think they have to be cautious because they are scared of litigation Dee xx

Both my sons had the triple whammy. I thought I'd had german measles when I was a child, but I actually got it (no idea where from) when I was in my 20s and I discovered I had a rash on my way to a party where a work colleague was, who was pregnant. I went straight home and confirmed with GP that that is what I had. Luckily the colleague had a healthy girl, but as she had lost a baby with a heart defect two years earlier, you can imagine how I felt, in case I'd passed it on to her without realising. I am glad my sons won't be accidentally passing this on to anyone. But we ought to get over this controlling nature obsession. We can't control the weather, and although we have eradicated many diseases the last 100 years has seen that influenza can kill millions, AIDS is a scourge etc. We need to take all the precautions we can. Its awful when children are damaged through vaccines - if indeed it is the vaccine that does the damage - but being deaf and blind through catching measles isn't a good thing either. nell

Gwynne, if there's a family tendency to react badly to vaccinations then that's different, but the majority of people don't have adverse reactions.

I do hope that they don't return as they are seriously dangerous diseases. My father can't hear because of German Measles!! xx

Camberwell, my daughter had encephalitisdue to chicken pox and was very ill, 2.5 years later she contracted german measles and had a re lapse, very upsetting when your daughter can't remember her brothers name..She has been in and out of hospital and suffered so much for a 9 year old. It took 5.5 years for her to be discharged and boy did we celebrate that day. Luckily she has been able to attend school and do all the things children her age can. We are very very proud of her but know how close we came to loosing her and i for one would never wish that experince on any one. Incidently she also had mumps so if it had not been for vaccintions who knows what would have happened. Lisa xx

According to the British Medical Association's 'Family Health Encyclopedia' - Measles can impair sight in severe cases, and it can cause encephalitis in approx. one case per thousand, which itself can cause seizures, coma, mental impairment and, sometimes, death. In pregnancy, measles gives approx. a 20% change of foetal death. Mumps can occasionally cause meningitis and, rarely pancreatitis. in boys and men, it can sometimes cause sterility. Chickenpox can result in pneumonia in adult cases or, occasionally, encephalitis. With Rubella (German measles), it is more likely to be a danger to unborn babies if the mother contracts it during the first four months of pregnancy. It can also result in a type of arthritis in adults, which is usually short-lived.

My daughter opted out of the MMR with her little boy he was milk intolerant and she had read somewhere it could cause a reaction. She asked the doctor and he wasn't at all helpful so she didn't want to take the risk. instead it cost a fortune and a long journey to have them done seperatley. She has had her little girl done with the MMR and little boy has now had a MMR booster. Thing is they done't give you a lot of confidence, just rant at you what you should do. Perhaps if they sat down and talked to you about it more would have their children immunised. Germaine x

I'm not sure why people are so anti-rubella for males. It can cause swelling of the brain, regardless of gender. It's rare, but so is the chance of contracting rubella at the same time as becoming pregnant. Anyone with a compromised immune system or a condition that leaves them unable to be vaccinated is likely to develop severe versions of any disease. They get protection from everyone around them being vaccinated. There's a term for it that I've forgotten. Collective immunity? Something like that! The reason the MMR was introduced was because parents were not bothering to complete the course of six injections for the separate jabs. The same for the combined tetanus, polio, diphtheria and whooping cough vaccines. Given the increase in foreign travel, it is likely that there will be an outbreak of something sooner or later. People have forgotten, or never knew, that these diseases kill or cripple and that's why the government implemented a widespread childhood vaccination scheme. It will take a few dead or disabled babies to hit the headlines to see an increase in uptake.

as a mother of a child who we nearly lost though chicken pox (no vaccine available in uk) i think all children should be vaccinated, Mine have and dispite this my daughter went on to catch german measles docs said she was lucky to have been vaccinated beacause she caught a lower dose. I know it is a hard decision to make but the consequences are horrendous not only to their children but unvaccinated children put others at risk. Lisa xx

Rebs I share your concerns about international travel My OH travels to some really remote places and could easily bring back something that we thought we had seen eradicated over here. Dee xx

Get over it Julie. pmsl!!! I'm designing an irish dance dress for my girl. It's a work of art, a masterpiece, and it's taking as long to finish as the Sistine Chapel, hence Rebelangelo. lol Rebs x *apologises to Dee for hijacking thread*

Both of my children were vaccinated with all routine vaccinations when younger. However, I do believe that parents should have the option of either combined or single jabs. It's the only way that we'll get the percentage of immunisations we need to avoid an epidemic that can cause serious consequences. Off subject here Rebs 'angelo' pmsl ;-) Juliexx *the true angelic one ;-)

Yeah, I agree to an extent Gwynne. But not every country is diligent and conscientious in regards to immunisation, and with international travel being easily available these days perhaps we all need to take responsibility to an extent. Personally, I've never had an issue with having my children vaccinated against any of the childhood nasties. The youngest has also been immunised against hep C and menningacoccal (whatever strain) because the health system offered it through the schools. Something I wish had been on offer when the two boys were at school.