General Chat

in 7 parts, hope you find it interesting, it may give you an idea of conditions at the time for young families

Checking through the GRO index for the year 1870 I came across the births of five children in the family I was researching. Born in Bromley, they were Abel, Ada, Albert, Ernest and Reuben. They were born at a time when infant mortality rates were high and large families often lived on low incomes and in poor conditions. Education at that time would not have been compulsory and I wondered what would become of the children. Certainly by the time of the 1881 census two of them had died. The circumstances that led to those deaths, and the fortunes of the other three are what I hope to relate here. Ada was the sixth child to be born to her parents and she lived for less than 6 months. Her father was a saw sharpener. It is known that in Victorian times infant mortality rates were high. Certainly in the poorer areas two out of ten babies would die before their first birthday. Some of the babies would have died following birth complications and others from congenital defects. Poor nutrition and infectious diseases also took their toll. Scarlet fever was an ever-present threat and the people of Bromley would have also lived in fear of cholera and diphtheria.

Child mortality was also high, with only three out of four children reaching the age of five. They were not only affected by the previously mentioned diseases and poor living conditions, but also died as a result of accidents in the home. There seemed to be an alarming number of fatal accidents reported in the local papers, and sadly young Albert was one of the cases I read about. In February of 1872 the Bromley Record reported his death. It appears that his mother ‘returned from a house in the neighbourhood where she had been working, with a number of bottles. Without thought, she placed them within reach of her child’ Sadly Albert drank from one of the bottles, which contained poison, and by next morning he was dead. A verdict of accidental death was passed following the inquest. Other reports told of a child scalded to death and of several children burnt to death following carelessness with candles. Albert’s parents went on to have two more children, Minnie in 1874 and Albert in 1875. Albert Noel was born Christmas Day 1875 but sadly did not live to see Christmas 1876. Like other families of the time his parents had named their new baby after a child that had already died.

1877 was to see the death of young Albert’s mother, aged 36. Although childbirth was a common cause of death during this period there is no evidence that this was so in her case. Worn down by childbirth and the loss of two children in a relatively short period it is not unreasonable to suspect that she would have been vulnerable to infection. Poor living conditions would not have helped. Certainly the houses she and her family were living in had given concern to The Borough Surveyor in a report he made in 1868. In 1888 things were not very much better as these same houses were causing the Medical Officer of Health concern. Sanitation at the time was poor and overcrowding rife, leading to the rapid spread of infection, which resulted in high mortality rates. When she died she left her husband with five children, three boys and two girls, aged between 3 and 15. We cannot be sure what happened immediately after her death, but by the time of the 1881 census the three boys were working and still living at home. Two had followed their father into the building trade. Sidney, the youngest, aged 13, was working as a carman’s boy for his Uncle. Annie, age 15, was living with her father and three brothers. She is shown without occupation so was presumably keeping house. It would not have been unusual at the time for a girl of that age to take over the running of the house following the death of her mother. She would have had Aunts living close by to advise her and no doubt neighbours would have also helped out.

Ernest’s parents ran a laundry, and in 1881 he is shown as a scholar. Two of his younger siblings were at a boarding school nearby and one of his older brothers was at home doing the bookkeeping for the family business. It leads one to suspect that the younger children were in boarding school because the parents were busy building up their business. Like parents today, some families would have probably put their work before their children. In 1881 Abel and Reuben were living at home with their parents and were also shown as scholars. Abel’s father was a builder and Reuben’s was a carman. Abel and his parents were living in a two bed roomed terraced house. He had six brothers and sisters, and they shared the house with a boarder (his mother’s brother) and a lodger. In the book ‘The Rise of a Respectable Society’ F.M.L. Thompson states that ‘all the brothers and sisters in a family might be fortunate to have one bedroom to share between them, and often one or two of the younger children slept in the kitchen’. It is also possible that the younger children would have slept in their parent’s bedroom. Conditions must have been very cramped, affording little privacy to the adults or the growing children.

An aunt and uncle in Kingston-on-Thames, Surrey had taken in the youngest child, Minnie. The uncle is show as a waterman and they had one son living at home. Minnie must have found life there very different to what she had been used to in Bromley. Families were often split up following the death of a parent. The other alternatives would have been for the husband to remarry, or the children to go into the workhouse Young Sidney had presumably gone out to work to help with the family finances. This was not uncommon at the time. Children of his age would often be found working. If he were lucky he may have been allowed to keep a small amount of his wages for himself. As we can see from the census returns some of Sidney’s cousins were still in education after their tenth birthday. This is perhaps evidence that the families were aware that education would give their children better prospects in the future. It wasn’t until 1880 that compulsory schooling was introduced for all children up to the age of 10 and in 1899 the age was raised to 12

Despite all the hardships, three of the children born in 1870 survived. Taking everything into consideration I don’t feel there life style differed greatly from that of their neighbours. Their families may have had their trials and tribulations but at the end of the day they did the best they could in the circumstances to raise their children. Certainly in 1901 we can see that Abel was married, with a child and still living in Bromley. He is shown as a bricklayer, like his father before him. Reuben had become a builder’s labourer and had married one of the girls who worked in his uncle’s laundry and Ernest was an unmarried lodger with a Bromley family and was employed in the laundry business, like his father before him Bibliography Mary Abbott, Family Ties, English Families 1540/1920, ( Routledge 1995) Peter Boreham, Daily Life in Bromley and Neighbourhood 1858 – 1900 (Peter Boreham, 1999)

What would the three boys do in years to come? Would they go in search for work in other parts of the country? At the time of the census Abel’s family had a boarder living with them. Alfred, a 21 year old from Oxford, was working for his brother in law as a bricklayer. It is known that a married brother or sister would often give a home to a younger sibling. This would possibly have been due to a lack of work opportunities in their hometown. It may also have been due to family problems. In general large families supported each other in times of hardship. If Ada had lived would she have followed her sisters into service? In 1881 her sisters are both shown in service in Lewisham. Going into service ‘represented a chance to accumulate skills and savings to take into marriage’ Life in service would not have been easy. The girls would, however, probably have been better housed and fed than when they had lived with their parents. When you consider the conditions Abel and his parents were living in at the time of the census it is easy to see that the chance of having a room to yourself, or shared with another servant, would be tempting. There they would stay until they married.

Dea Apart from my gt grandmother who was pregnant 9 times but only raised 3 children, my lot seem to be fairly healthy. My gt grandmother lost 3 babies in infancy through illnesses associated with poverty. They lived in Islington. My Norfolk gt grandmother had 10 children. Only one died in childhood, of meningitis. The rest grew up and several became police officers so they had to be fairly fit and healthy. Similarly, the Gloucestershire lot were healthy. Of 8 children, only the eldest died young, being knocked down by a runaway horse and cart. My Cornish-born gt grandmother died young, aged 37, of TB and only had one child, my mum's mum, who lived to be 97. nell

What an interesting story , Dee -it makes genealogy all the more intriguing. I`ve just written 700 words on the story of my great aunt-she didn`t do anything interesting but has a connection with a friend of mine -they live in the house her husband had built in 1940`s. My gr, gr grandmother died age 34 leaving 5 children -don`t know what happened to 2 of them as they were boarders with a family in 1881 census. Rosalyn

I think the trend in my family tree - both mum and dad's side, and that of my husband's, follow national trends. 1780s-1840s Family size is often 10 children, sometimes more. Often younger children are born after the eldest children have had their own first baby. Marriage is to the boy next door or girl in the next parish. Children are named after their parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles, and names are recycled when a child dies. Popular names: Mary, Ann, Elizabeth, Susan. Men are called William, Thomas or John, with a few Josephs thrown in. Husband's Welsh lot are very fond of Margaret and Mary. People stay in or very near the parish in which they were born. Their family are living up and down the road from them. Most are ag labs. They die of 'old age' or 'consumption'. 1840s-1860s Changes. Family size is now often fewer than 8. There's a bit more mobility, often to a village some miles away, though usually along a major road. Younger generation are beginning to go to towns, especially London, to seek employment in industry. Deaths through many respiratory illnesses - pulmonary TB, pneumonia, etc. 1860s-1900 Family size is now about 4-6 children. The girls are usually off to work in service when they are 13, though some work in industry. Family names are less popular, some names without family history are being used, Frederick being a name that comes in. Some families move home frequently and the children often settle a long way away from the parental home. nell

Hi Rosalyn It's good to be able to write it all down sometimes, it gives future generations an idea of what went on I agree with you Nell about the changes Have just studied the effects the railways had on families in Kent and London, and it made a huge difference in the mid 1800's to the way families lived, worked, and spent their pleasure time No more at the minute Carol, but there may be one day Dee x

You mentioned the railways -I`m still waiting on a photo of Guthrie Station , Forfar where my great aunt was born from someone -not on here -who said they would send it. I`ve e- mailed him several times to remind him -he works for the railways now, Rosalyn

i remember a sad story my mother told me. Her sister was born in 1931 when my mum was six. She said she remembered that her sister was always crying before she died at six months old. It was her job to put condensed milk on a dummy to soothe her sister. I asked why they didn,t take her to the doctors, and with tears in her eyes, my mum said they just didn't have any money as her father was jobless. however much we moan about it, thank goodness for the NHS.

This was interesting Dee, and I am beginning to imagine my dad as a small boy now I have some photographs and have been to see where the cottages were that he was brought up in (small village called Gawcott, near Buckingham). My gran was from Gawcott too but her father worked for the railway and was moved to work in Wales so have a whole bunch of Welsh relatives too, as other children were born after the move. Fascinating stuff.

Thank you ladies for your kind words It certainly made me sit up and think when I realised just what conditions the people in the Victorian Age were living in, especially those of the working classes As you say Teresa, it must have been very difficult for families to have seen their children suffering due to lack of affordable medical care Hope some more people will be encouraged to look into the lifestlyes of the past, it certainly is fascinating, and there are simply hundreds of books out there about the Victorian times Dee xx

That's such a great way to explain why we all get hooked...... to find out what happened to them all!! xx

Hi Diana By the time I had traced the family into the 20th Century there were branches in Canada, America and Australia, Dee xx

Teresa How sad. My Mum's childhood was the same, you didn't call the doctor out unless you were dying. Her own brother died of peritonitis because the doctor wasn't called in time. I think about my mum's childhood in Kent in the 1930s and my life is completely different. Her dad was out of work most of the time, he did any work he could - farm work, blacksmithing, shoe repairing etc to earn money. They ate meat on Sundays and the rest of the time lived on the vegetables they grew plus stodge like dumplings. The few photos she has of herself and her siblings they are as thin as whippets. She had to stay off school for 3 days once because her boots needed repairing and she had to wait until her father had got the money to buy the nails to repair them. She is now an old age pensioner and has to watch her pennies a bit, but says she is better off now than she's ever been and people who moan about being hard up don't know what they are talking about!! nell

Hi Nell I think people’s perception of poverty is different these days, perhaps it is the topic for a thread? Dee x