General Chat

France is an overwhelmingly Catholic country -- up to 88 percent of the population belongs to the Roman Catholic church, according to the CIA World Factbook. However, the number of active believers has been falling for decades.

Nonetheless, France boasts a glorious and splendid Catholic legacy -- from the iconic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris to its status as one of the first countries to adopt Catholicism as its official religion. In fact, when Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne as Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire in the year 800, France’s history became inseparable from that of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, Avignon in the south of France served as the papal seat from 1309 to 1377 -- the last of the so-called ‘Avignonese popes’ was Gregory XI, who was born Pierre-Roger De Beaufort in Limoges-Fourche. (No Frenchman has served as the Holy Father since then.)

But now in the second decade of the 21st century, with the College of Cardinals having elected a new Pontiff in the Vatican -- Pope Francis of Argentina -- France’s Catholic Churches are increasingly bereft of parishioners. The numbers are grim. Last year, according to reports, more than one-third (35 percent) of France’s population and almost two-thirds (63 percent) of youth said they belonged to “no religion.” Very few people, an estimated 1-in-20 of the French, regularly attend Mass anymore.

Father Innocent Feugna, an African deacon who toils at St Pierre de Guise in northern France, complained that his congregation in aging and dying out.
“Here I'm preaching to pensioners,” he lamented to BBC.

"In Cameroon, [the Catholic] Mass is animated, it's alive -- here [in France], services are still flat and cold. In Cameroon, the churches are full. We've got children. We've got adults, all ages. It's completely different from France."
Not only are France’s church-goers aging, so are church officials -- the average priest in the country is now 75, forcing the importation of foreigners to conduct religious services.

"Young people have different aspirations," Feugna stated. "Their interests lie elsewhere. The Church perhaps doesn't have the right message for young people here."

Needless to say, it is very hard to find potential priests among French youth, commented Douglas Yates, assistant professor of political science at the American University of Paris and professor at the American Graduate School in Paris.
“As the priests in France get older, they are being replaced by Africans, particularly in rural areas, a phenomenon that draws not a little attention in the mass media,” he said, “If the trend continues, the Catholic church will become a minority religion. Already it is eye-to-eye with agnostic and atheists. Modern France is a secular society.”

Members of France’s own Catholic Church have admitted as such -- noting that the number of baptisms has plunged by almost 25 percent since 2000, while the number of Catholic wedding services has dropped by 40 percent over that period.

“The Catholics are dispersed throughout the country, more heavily in the rural areas than in the urban centers, but nevertheless geographically omnipresent,” said Yates.

“Demographically, the practicing Catholic population is gray haired, as anyone could see who walks into a French church. Many churches are so ill-attended that they are abandoned, or sold to the commune (often turned into private homes, restaurants or even cafes).”

Interestingly, despite its adherence to Catholicism, France has had a stormy relationship with the Vatican. Odon Vallet, a French religion and Vatican scholar, explained to FRANCE 24, why there have been no French popes in over 600 years.

“This historical absence can be explained, notably, by the difficult relationship that Church and French kings had with the papacy,” he noted.
“And it’s important to remember that Napoleon put a pope in prison.”

Moreover, while the embrace of Catholic values appears to be slipping from the French consciousness, the rocky road for the legalization of same-sex marriage would suggest that some church teachings have deep roots.

A bill approving gay marriage (and the right of gay couples to adopt) was passed in the lower house of parliament last month – but it was hardly unanimous. The measure passed in the National Assembly by a vote of 329 in favor to 229 against, while 10 deputies abstained.

The bill remains subject to approval by the senate before it becomes law.
Already, Paris has witnessed huge protests against the bill from social conservatives and church figures.

Last year, Cardinal Andre Vingt-Trois, the archbishop of Paris, warned a group of French bishops in Lourdes that same-sex marriage "would be a transformation of marriage that would affect everyone" and amounted to a form of “deceit.”
Indeed, Yates notes that Catholicism should not be discounted as a force in French society.

“The Cathedral remains a pillar of the identity of most French cities, and the parish church the symbolic center of small town France,” he said.

“One of the most visible showings of French Catholics were the public protests against gay marriage that filled the streets of Paris this winter. If those crowds are any indication, French Catholics have a voice equal to other social forces.”

Yates also points out that the French media that has not only given an extensive amount of space and time to covering the papal conclave, but it has been extremely careful not to offend its French audiences.

“One could say that while the French are no longer a practicing country, they remain nominally Catholic, and retain something of this in their national identity.”

{Copied from International Business Times.}

Interesting that you should mention the papacy being at Avignon, Dermot.

What was the reason for that?

On this morning news here experts were quoted as saying that restoration would take "many decades", and that is if the walls do not collapse.

I wonder if France will be lucky if it takes less than 50 to 100 years ............. far beyond our lifetimes.

Apparently, according to one of the restorers who worked on Windsor castle interviewed earlier, France has more artisans trained in the skills needed than the UK does. So hope that is the case and we 'might' see at least some of it restored before we shuffle off. I am glad that so much remained intact.

French stonemasons were working on the recent renovations at Gloucester Cathedral so, Rose, you are probably right.

Sheila, I went to have a read on the Cathedral website, not having been to Gloucester, very interesting :-)

For most of the C14 there was a rival papacy in Avignon controlled by the French king. The Avignon papacy included Spain.

French troops commanded by Napoleon Bonaparte defeated the papal troops and occupied the Papal States in 1796. In 1798, upon his refusal to renounce his temporal power, Pius was taken prisoner and transported to France (where he was taken into custody un Avignon, where else

Because of the French law of Laïcité relations between the Vatican and France have always been poor and currently are at rock bottom as France awaits Senate approval of same sex marriage already passed in the Assembly.

All French cathedrals are state property. As a result the Vatican won't shell out and stingy French govts provide minimalist funding while blocking entry charges. Macron has given a totally hypocritical speech this evening on the matter.

Given that there is apparently plenty of funding available the major enemy of N.D. is now the formidable French bureacracy. No less than five bodies have a major say.

Very sad news The cross lighting up the wall must give people hope for resurrecting & building it back to former glory <3

York Minster rose out the ashes again
I am sure Notre Dame will to :-D :-D

More than one French billionaires has already pledged enormous sums for the restoration of Notre Dame and using the technology we now have it should only take a fraction of the time to do the work.

There is not much point in restoring fire ravaged historic buildings by modern ersatz. That old skills crafts and materials are available means an authentic job can be done. That is why Windsor Castle and York Minster took so long.

The restoration of N. D. cannot be tied to Macron's electoral schedule.

Call in "The BBC big build team".

Didn't they have Insurance :-D :-D

Any idea what the insurance premium would be?

The movable works of art were insured with Axxa. They are owned by the diocese.

The structure of N.D. including the organ and wood carvings belongs to the state of France. It is a basic tenet of insurance law that government self insures its assetts.
Hence the appeal for funds as the French govt - which owns ND - has refused maintenance funds for years and now doesn't want to pay for the consequences.

I'd be surprised if the huge risk was not re-assured elsewhere.

Common practice.

Reports that it was a short circuit that started the fire

Apparently Macron wants it fully restored so fast because the Olympics take place in 2024, and billions of visitors are expected.

Not sure how that ties in with his electoral schedule :-S

Apparently one of the world's master craftsmen in stone carving lies in Ottawa, he and his company have just finished restoring stone work on the West Block of our Parliament.