General Chat

Driver awareness courses are being used for careless driving cases. Here is a recent one which hit the headlines:

http://road.cc/content/news/76242-driver-awareness-course-motorist-who-knocked-bradley-wiggins-his-bike

I understand Rollo I was referring to the speeding awareness course.

Sure ... but the difference is semantic.

In any case I don't think any of these courses are a good idea.
The main idea is to cut down prosecution costs and police time.
Cheap justice for some.

can I ask Rollo - have you ever exceeded the speed limit?

Yes, of course I have. So has pretty well anybody who drives.
As a young guy I had one of the fabled Mini Cooper S which helped me to being disq. 6 months for speeding - so I spent the money saved on beer :-)

After learning that waiting at wet n windy bus stops and long late walks home is not my thing I didn't get any more tickets in the UK. I did get fined $ 100 in California driving on the Big Sur at around 70mph.

In France nothing except lots of "papillons" ( parking tiockets ). Not even a scraped fender despite driving around Paris nearly every day. French plate car.

Over the last 5 years since I came back to the UK no, I have not exceeded the speed limit. There is no point in it as the roads are so bad that driving in a hurry won't get you there any faster. I do use car's performance to safely overtake trucks, caravans etc but no need to break speed limits. It is ez enough to fit a gadget which warns of the current speed limit.

Since a near death experience on a zebra crossing hit by a speeding taxi I have had quite strong feelings about urban speeding. Portsmouth with its 20mph limit is the way to go. The never ending carnage in the New Forest has made me feel much the same about rural speeding.

As Porky-Pie says the art of driving is concentration and hazard anticipation plus smoothness. Pay attention to all that and the mirrors and you should not find yourself breaking the speed limit anyway.

Driving 5mph over 30/40mph limits is not only careless but dangerous too, mainly for pedestrians and cyclists.

Very fast driving is great fun, just that the public highway is not the place.

there you go, enjoy your ride

I have ameliorated my driving speeds over the last few years........and a lot of what Rollo /Roy say I agree with,

however if a driver /vehicle is not capable of maintaining the speed limit( no matter what road) then I think that they shouldn't be on it.

my latest grievance, is underpowered powered bicycles (in my mind they don't qualify as a real motor bike.!)
yes I know its current legislation to progress up the power/speed range, but
it appears that they are taught that the section of road is theirs, and to ride in the middle of the lane, thus preventing anyone else from over-taking safely.

in MY day as a motorcyclist.I was taught to allow other road users to overtake, by not hogging the road.

Bob

I have to say I find some of these replies very pompous!

The course I was on is called the National Speed Awareness Course. Some apparently are run by private companies but this one is done through our local County Counci Environment, Transport and Development Dept.

One of the women 'teaching' us is a part time Sugarbeet lorry driver and fits in her work with the courses round the driving work. I was not the only person who was pleased with the way the two woman acted towards us, and felt the course was worth doing without patronising us.

The road I was on when I went over the limit was at the time completely empty of other traffic and it was daylight, dry conditions and has large houses on one side with longish driveways and a College that was closed for the summer, on the other side. It leads from the Ipswich road into Norwich city centre, just within the ring road. I had total vision ahead of me and around me. I was caught driving at 36mph when it should have been 30 or less. I made a mistake, one that happens to all drivers, I will not believe that no one goes over the limit even by a small amount at some time in their driving history. I am usually very aware of speed limits and everyone who travels with me says they think I am a good and safe driver.

The course cost £84 so I don't see how it cuts down cost of prosecution etc, if I had accepted the fine and points it would have cost me £60.

Liz

forgot to say, my hands are always at quarter to three

Good for you Ann, how awful for the widow of that man I mentioned to know that such a fluke as his hand position, killed him when maybe he would have survived otherwise. Terribly sad.

Lizx

For me this was initially just four hours of my time given up to attend a course I did not feel I really needed. Not only did the four hours speed by (within the safe and regulated limit of course) but I actually drove away (carefully) from the session feeling like I'd learned something. Admittedly some of it was a Highway Code refresher course, but there's a subliminal message of attitude and methodology that left me feeling like I had not wasted wasted half a day.

The facilitators running the courses were not the police and, (as they constantly remind you) they were there simply to educate and, hopefully, reduce repeat offences.

This thread made me take a look today at my driving wheel hold and I drive at the quarter to three hand hold

I usually take care not to exceed the speed limits ,always seem though to get someone who wants to drive up my exhaust pipe . It seems to me like intimidation that infers I am an old biddy who needs to put her foot down Well I dont ,will sometimes remark to the air, if you want to go faster then Bl...y overtake .#

Not a goody two shoes though cos i have caught myself inadvertently sometimes going over 30 when accelerating. Our car too doesnt like 30 in 4th gear so sometimes its juggling to get it to poodle along at 30

I have one hand at three because I was a van driver for far too long and have to have an elbow out.

My invitation to a course was for doing 33 on an urban road at 2ambut I was glad I did it.

One part of the course involved deconstructing one of the road safety advertisements which made a great deal of sense.

I don't think I have knowingly exceeded the speed limit since.

we were lucky that OH was not caught by cameras speeding on motorways around Manchester in 2008.

As visitors driving a rented car, we were NOT provided with any "rules of the road" ................

and honestly did not know that the unrestricted sign on the motorways does NOT mean that.

OH was driving at around 80-90 kph ....... based on the speed the traffic was going.

The usual speed here on a similar road would be 80-100 kph, depending on the state of the road, straightness, etc.

However, the actual speed limit is posted at regular intervals on our roads, so one always knows how you should be driving, and warning is given of any change in the limit.


It was not until about 5 days after our arrival that we went to stay with a friend who, in the course of casual "catch-up" conversation mentioned that he had been caught once by a speed camera on the motorway and since had been very careful.

That's when we realised OH had exceeded the speed limit at least 5 times in the previous days!

we were plenty worried ........... but seemingly we escaped being captured on camera ..................... OR the car rental company paid the fine :-D

the introduction of managed speed limits on motorways does seem to help keep the traffic moving. I use the M42 round Birmingham regularly and as long as you keep to the speed on the gantries the traffic usually keeps flowing. There are however speed cameras on most of the gantries and judging by the flashes I see, they are raking in the funds. I also find it stange how the average speed cameras that are so common now cause problems for a lot of people. The slow down to the speed limit as they pass each set and then roar off into the distance. I suppose they only release the meaning of 'average speed' when the NIP lands on the doormat.

Having recently bought a 1970's sports car as a bit of fun, it also makes you release just how far car safety as come on in recent years. No airbags, ABS brakes, traction control. You have to be more aware of other road users as the car won't do anything for you.

Andy

True Andrew....
Average speed is so ambiguous

If you enter the zones at the "Average speed" you need to be a bit careful
I usually set my car to " average speed" if I enter one of these
BUT There used to be a school question about average speeds, the actual numbers evade me now,

but the authorities( according to my police contact) wont say where the readings are taken from.........ie any 3 cameras......or the entire network on that stretch of road.........or even if that section is actually live..........or if there is any " window".

if traffic is moving smoothly, then its likely you are near the average speed, but if there is any congestion..........then the calculation goes out of the window, as it were....

The problem for us as tourists to the UK is that nowhere does it say what is the maximum speed on an "unrestricted" road.


You, as residents, know this ................... by absorption??? ...................... but the powers-that-be must make a mint of money out of the poor tourist!

Yea Sylvia,
the maximum speed ANYWHERE in the UK is 70 Mph

dual carriageways unless posted otherwise are 70Mph
national speed limit is a diagonal black bar on a white background which applies on all roads.....
but
single carriageways vary, from 50 to 60 Mph unless posted otherwise.(30/40)......there are usually repeater signs for these roads..........small round discs with the speed on them......urban street lighting usually implies a 30 Mph limit unless posted as less than that......

MINIMUM speed limits are in blue..........usually through tunnels etc........

so how is the poor tourist supposed to know what the unrestricted sign actually means????????????????


If you have a map, it says the black bar across a white background is "unrestricted, but NOT what the speed is!

here is about the best simple explanation, Sylvia, its difficult enough for us locals let alone you tourists!!

http://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/advice_centre/casualty
_reduction_partnership/speed/know_your_speed_limits.aspx

you're not kidding!!


why can't you be like other countries, and post the actual speed limit on all roads, even motorways?? :-D