General Chat

Why does the USA and UK getting a piggy back think they can calm troubled waters in other countires,,,,Blair and Bush again?,........oh, of course the big daddies wont be going there will they. :-P

Havnt these countries always sorted themselves out without intervention from outsiders with grand ideas.

Kay????:-). I thought at the beginning of this crisis, the world was more or less united politically that Assad needed to be removed and replaced by a peacekeeping force until elections had taken place to elect new leaders in Syria.

And now world seems to be more united than ever. Once again, America, Britain and France will have to lead any assault and it will drain those countries of precious resources at a time when many citizens are needing welfare, food banks etc. :-)

But they will have a considerable mandate to remove Assad if UN Inspectors find he has been using chemical weapons in Damascus. Whether military action will improve conditions for ordinary Syrians is doubtful, I agree. I still think the Russians could broker a deal with Obama and appear as the peacemaker! That will do Putin's reputation no harm in Russia.

RolloTheRed found your post @ 10:07 very enlightening

I put this thread up because of how I felt about
what is happening in Syria. As I said I do not profess
to know the ins and outs of the situation there or for
that matter anywhere else in the world.
I was hoping for a debate on the subject from those
who are, and have found thus far very interesting and
Rollo may I say you have educated me in the politics
etc on this subject.
I do not mind a heated debate, we all have our take on
these things.

Emma

I too GG do not understand the politics of it all but I do know one thing the world cannot sit back and watch another holicost take place.

I was sickened at the children being hurt in all this ,what kind of a man destoys his own people and country.

A sick one ,give him what Gadaffi got I say :-|

I posted "It is significant that China has not given any support to Assad."
That is true.

Sure China was resistant to the tougher UN resolutions. That is not because China is in favour of the Assad regime and its barbaric ways. China is not a homogenous country at all and it is nervous of any UN resolution which could be construed as a precedent for secession. So is Russia for different reasons and thus it often looks like Russia and China are acting together when they are not.

China is nervous about secession in Western China, Tibet and above all Taiwan. The island remains legally part of the Republic of China and trade and travel between the two is booming.

Since Tiananmen Square law and politics have moved on a whole lot in China. Though far from being a democracy government is increasingly both accountable and in accordance with the law, even if there is a long way to go. Rich and powerful people who have profited from corruption are beginning to find themselves in jail. Ordinary people can kick up a shindig without being hauled off to labour camps. These changes are happening because the regime accepts that they have to. A billion people cannot be controlled by force.

Aside from the principal of supporting the territorial integrity of Syria ( and all other countries) China has given no practical support or help towards Assad's regime at all. It supported an investigation of the chemical attack by the UN inspectors, Russia did not.

What the west has been hoping for is for the regime to collapse leading to peace negotiations. So far this has proven impossible largely due to support from Iran and its Hezbollah proxy and now Sarin gas attacks.

Milosovich and Ghaddafi crumbled when faced with NATO airpower and cruise missiles. There have already been high level defections from the Ba'ath government. The US may well be calculating that with their chemical capability and air defense taken out some of the regime may decide it is time to dump Assad and talk turkey at Geneva. The neat thing about such a strategy is that it would not materially change things "on the ground" and the US/Russia could still work together as brokers of something different to Ba'athism or an Al Queda caliphate.

Russia can still retrieve what is right now a losing hand.
Iran looks to be a loser whichever way the cake is sliced which will at least please the Jerusalem Times.

I am not sure that we can call this a holocaust or not. Men (sic) of all countries, including Britain, have and will destroy their own people and countries.
They will also, as Britain has done on many occasions, destroy and obliterate other nations, other lives, other peoples.

Rollo your explanation and interpretation are very welcome.

But John, what are you basing your statement on...

"at the beginning of this crisis, the world was more or less united politically that Assad needed to be removed"

Just because an article in the Jerusalem Post is similar to an article in " i " does not make it correct or an accurate analysis and it is possibly a little naive to think that the Jerusalem Post has an accurate and unbiased take on things when Israel has such an interest in the situation and has, indeed, fired rockets into Syria.

Military intervention in the country could very easily destabilise the region even further and runs the risk of rapid escalation particularly as the various "players" each have their own, different agendas.

I wonder why Germany is pressing for the reurn of all its gold? Some claim that Germany is about to emerge as a key player in the Middle East.

(The Philadelphia Trumpet - February 2013).

We are a small Country, up to our ears in debt, cutting our Armed Forces. Keep out of Syria unless part of the UN.

If we bomb Syria, who do we kill, the Goodies or the Baddies - But who knows who are the Goodies and who are the Baddies????

Haig said he would look for a solution without the say-so of the UN.
As the PM is on holiday (his 4th this year) one presumes Haig hasn't discussed this with him.

Interestingly, if you google William Haig and Syria, he's had a lot to say over a few months.

Bit of a loose cannon to my mind. Strikes me he wants to do something 'momentous' he can be remembered for.

Surely for something as momentous as retaliation they should recall parliament. :-S

But they wouldn't be retaliating would they?

They would be acting as the world police force - rightly or wrongly.

Cameron is returning from his holiday and there will be a meeting of the National Security Council.

Hmm yes retaliating was the wrong word. Policing is better. Sorry didn't think that through. I think we should be wary of following America's lead.

I wonder if the UN will find any chemical evidence,
or has too much time elapsed.

Emma

Emma - that is if they can even get close enough without being shot!

Now, could that be that somebody is worried about what they may find?

Ann - I totally agree.

I think we all understood your point, AnninGlos. Absolutely no need to have been corrected or apologise imo. Just pedantry.

Wherever Cam is on holiday, I am sure he has his finger firmly on the pulse. Possibly a lot more effective in decision making whilst on holiday. And Hague will be enjoying his world statesman part currently. Whatever our politics, they are both exceptionally clever men who are skilful politicians. They will be lining up something to sweep them back into No 10 and Chequers and Chevening in 2015.

Helping the so called "goodies" in this dispute needs to be accompanied by some pretty clear UN policies of what trade-off is required for helping them to overthrow Assad regime.

Fantastic post re China, Rollo. You are teaching me a lot on this thread, and am very grateful for your knowledge and your clear explanations.

I just think it's so sad that people are against each other, they are all one country
but it seems they can't live together. Maybe different Religions have a lot to answer for but should we interfere ,its a big decision to make,I for one wouldn't like to do it

Well there's always that possibility Errol.

John please stop trying to get digs in - it was a valid comment because retaliation is a totally different ballgame and has a totally different meaning and there is no need to accuse anyone of pedantry.

It was not a case of correcting somebody, I felt that the word retaliation was inappropriate in this instance. Just because people disagree with you does not mean you are right or wrong.

As anyone who has seen or read any news over the past few days will be more than aware (so I hope I am not stating the obvious to anyone), Cameron is in Cornwall and is returning so that he can attend a meeting of the National Security Council and be better placed for decision making. I don't think that sitting on a beach in Cornwall is necessarily the best place to make decisions with global implications. lol

Very often the terms "goodies" and "baddies" are complete misnomers. Maybe more accurate terminology would be "those who serve our own selfish interests best" and "those who do not".

Strangely, in my job, with my humble pay, I'm not deemed capable of working from home - whether on holiday, off sick or waiting for a plumber.
Perhaps that's because I do my own job, whilst those 'in power', be it of a government or in higher management have their work done by poorly paid minions following the advice of overpaid consultants.

Still, to put on a 'good show' he needs to be seen to be in charge.