General Chat

A close rellie of RTR is a senior civil servant at the DWP. Whatever cock up follows another it is not their fault.

Although it often suits ministers to claim otherwise policy and execution of it come from the govt ministers. Senior civil servants just get on doing the best they can with it for better or for worse. Of course they "advise and warn" but if the horse has the bit between its teeth then away it will go.

It is very easy to mock up any sort of computer system to run a demo on a desktop. A toy town system in, say, Lancashire is not a whole lot harder.

There are five great big stone wall obstacles for real world delivery of large scale IT systems. The late failed NHS system crashed into all of them.

(1) Scaling up - on a trivial letter members will have seen the chaos on Genes last year when it became obvious that the trial new system had not been stress tested.
When it comes to the scale of the DWP benefits system then it is the deep blue sea.

(2) Complexity - the more disparate systems that have to be welded together, the more analysts have to weld together the immovable force of incoherent legislation and the rock of Hal tombstone IT logic then the surer a broken project.

(3) Real time v batch - most large scale computer systems run in batch mode with operations run on a daily basis e.g. banks. The major exceptions are manufacturing and aviation for obvious reasons. DWP and the government IT has practically no experience with real time IT systems yet apparently benefits are to be recalibrated on a monthly basis. OK this is not true "real time" but it is more than enough to crash the whole HMCS PAYE system, employers systems and create all manner of knock on problems.

(4) Confidentiality Far too much of this sort if project is being carried out in the sub-continent. In part this is due to high level politics, in part trying to save money. Either way not only do a great many of the sub-contractors not have the required skills but the leakage of confidential Western Europe commercial data is already a massive problem.

(5) Resilience - what happens when part of the system has incorrect data ( GIGO or garbage in, garbage out ) OR just stops functioning ? We have already seen what happens when this happens with retail banks with back end processing in India. I might add that the undersea data fibre links connecting India and the UK have already been badly damaged (repaired after weeks) and are very susceptible to terrorism.

And this is without the obvious nightmare for the DWP "customers" as they refer to benefit caimants.

Far from the senior civil servants being part and parcel of a looming disaster they are doing their utmost to force a Walter Mitty project back into reality with the current small scale project. If they are successful then instead of a jolly crash it will be implemented piecemeal over a realistic time scale - about 10 years.

What do other countries do? They avoid the problem by not having nationwide unitary computer systems.

quem Jupiter vult perdere, dementat prius

The benefit includes rent which at the moment is paid directly to the landlord. In future the claiment will get it. Does anyone in the government seriously believe that rent arrears will not happen. This government has no clue to the real world.

I have a friend who lets out 2 flats in his large house, he is dreading this happening, because he KNOWS that one of his tenants will not pay his rent.

There was a time when privately rented flats had to be of a 'certain' standard, for (at the time) DHSS recipients to be moved in to.
My friend upgraded his flats, as tenants on benefit were welcomed - landlords were assured of their rent.
Now, tenants are likely to be forced out by the bedroom tax, with nowhere to go.

Dear All

Hello

Does this mean you have to wait a whole month before receiving your
first months benefit?

Aparently, IDS said this would help prepare people for work.

Exactly where are the jobs coming from?

Some benefits are paid every two weeks and can just about be managed but it should stop there.


Absolute shambles.

Take gentle care
Best wishes
EOS
xx

a lot of private rented poss now most in birmingham state no ss so when people get hit by the bedroom tax they wont even be able to move into smaller private property

The general consensus seem to be that it will be a disaster.
We are only a small group, but would imagine that the wider population will feel the same.
Are the politicians blind & deaf or just too self important to listen to the people who are affected by the changes. Not just benefit claimants, but the poor devils who have to try & administer it.

the head of the housing ass where the wife works has stated they expect rent arrears of over 1 million pounds due to the combined effects of the bedroom tax and universal credit .the wife has to visit a new tenant today who has a drink problem guess where his rent money is likely to go
last week they shut down the offices and all the staff were out visiting the 600+ tenants that are on some form of benefit to ensure they knew what was going to be the effect on them

Am computer illiterate to a high degree, but you just know that Governments and Local Authorities will make a pudding of anything to do with computers.

My OH was an expert of SIMS (educational software?). No longer because she transferred to another section of LG - but still mentions the strange and unique computer systems in her new role. I read Maggies's posts about doing away with Windows and messing up the admin of courses and often wonder why they have these strange and complicated systems.

You cannot help but feel that somebody in on an earner. That happens in private companies very often too, but people get sacked and prosecuted usually - before the profits get so low that company folds and everyone is sacked.

I think it is too late for IDS. It will be better now to put all the due benefits in a big cash box in each town hall every Friday and let local residents fight over them. As an elderly person, I should still be able to grab the £200 pension every week that I am entitled to for at least 5 years. I can camp outside on a Thursday night and use my shoulders and occasional punch to the kidneys when they open doors. But in 5 years time, I may well be much weaker and unable to get at my money - so it will be natural section. :-(

The more I read and hear about the Universal Credit the more I am convinced that this is just another bad piece of legislation which will end in chaos, and those on low wages and the vulnerable will be the ones that suffer :-|

I do not think this policy has been properly thought through and that the rush to implement it was a political decision to try and pacifying the disruptive right wing MP'S of the conservative party.

They are not only blind and deaf to all criticism surrounding this policy - they are also completely of touch with the ordinary working people and the genuinely vulnerable people of this country.

List of Conclusions and Recommendations relating to Universal Credit by the Work and Pensions Committee:-

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmworpen/576/57612.htm