General Chat

There's a documentary programme on Channel 4 tonight at 9:00 (or 10:00 on Channel 13) if anyone's interested, about the Queen Mothers nieces Nerissa and Katherine Bowes-Lyon who were born with learning difficulties and were hidden away from view. Have googled and there's a lot of information on them. :-(

This is such a sad programme.

Just watching now :-( :-(

Recalled when they first hit the headlines. However towards the end they mentioned three others but only mentioned 2 girls named Fane so who is the other?

Their siblings could have sent them gifts etc unless of course they too were told they were dead.

Well, what did you all think about the programme.
I was angry that the girls were left there all those years. I find it so sad. I am sure with all the money the royal family have the girls could have been cared for without being sent totally away from their parents. :-(

They were only two out of 5 within that family circle,,,,,what charmers that in later life the queen mother or the queen couldnt reconise them.....and then to overlook they were still alive and filled a Burkes Peerage that they were dead and blamed it on an oversight is just outrageous and couldnt even show any respect to attend the funeral or errect a headstone till the story broke years ago show just how so proper these people were,,,,,,,,,,,they should be ashamed throughly ashamed,,,,,,,,and even the queen has never made any attempt to go visit the remaining cousin. its all down the the Bowes-Lyon family.........and the queen mother going about like she cared about the welfare of others and a patron of Mencap she wasnt fit for the position.......

I bet if Dianna had known about them she would have loved to have visited.
Can you imagine how much that would have meant to them.

Kay I do think that it would be a bit complicated for the Queen to visit.

However the immediate relatives of all the girls should have. However I have just recalled some years ago I spoke to an old man concerning OH family history and he told me he had an aunt who died when she was 14.

I did not tell him what I knew - that his aunt died when she was 21 - she entered the local asylum at 14 yrs of age suffering from epilepsy. So it does follow the same trend in the highest and lowest families in the land.

The only complication it would have been for the queen would have been facing up to the fact her uncle and aunt on her mothers side had simply cast aside these people to save face,

I read in one of the papers at the weekend that the Queen was unhappy about this programme being aired.

I agree with you Chris it would have been complicated for the Queen to have visited but there is other ways to keep in touch.

We will never know what the Queen was led to believe - both the Bowes-Lyons girls entered the asylum in 1941 - our country was at war. Everything was topsy-turvey - a good time to hide anybody - air raids etc.

As I pointed out in earlier posting was not only the highest in the land covered up relatives in an asylum but the ag. lab did also!

I am just going to watch the programme now has I sky plus it .

So sad. I haven't seen the programme yet so please don't spoil it for me, but I think I agree with Chris. In those days anyone who was different was kept out of sight, not just to maintain the status quo but also to protect the individual. As I haven't yet seen the programme I can only speak from experience.
My gran had a sister a few years younger than her who was clearly brain-damaged - but in those days no-one knew why. She stayed in bed nearly all her life and I can remember visiting her in her darkened bedroom. She was called "Poor Nelly". I was only a little girl and I can remember her being quite child-like. When Nelly's mother (my great grandmother) died she left money especially for Nelly's care - I have ther will.
How shocking, though, that, although Aunty Nellie was loved and cared for, this was the extent of her care! I often think about her. She died when she was 64. Wasn't one of Queen Victoria's sons kept out of the limelight? And, for a while, Prince Edward was kept so privately everyone thought there must be something wrong with him as a child?

Things are very different now. And a lot better.

I forgot to say, that my parents had a problem with the Rhesus factor when they married and, because of Nelly, they were advised not to have more than two children because no-one knew what was the cause of Nelly's problem. It was thought it might be inherited. I tend to think now she was probably starved of oxygen at birth, but we will never know. And I could have had lots more brothers and sisters!!

King George V and Queen Marys son Prince John was shut away at Sandingham because he had epilepsy till he died so sad.

My Uncles SIL had a accident when she was about 18 months old ( the family never found out the full story) but it left her with mental age of 5. After her mother died my aunt found a good home near them so she could come home at weekends, then she did move in with them about 20 years ago. she out lived my uncle, and died two years ago aged 86. and is very fondly remembered by all the family.

Several years ago, about 15 or so, I started going to a Stress Management course at our local college. There was a woman there in her forties, a rather large, ungainly figure with a dreadful sort of squint. She was a little shy and slow in speaking to start with but blossomed as the weeks went by. It gradually came out that when she was about 16 I think it was, she was put into a home as she was deemed to be uncontrollable by her family. I don't know if they stayed in touch but I don't think she has any contact with them now or at the time of the course. To be shut away for most of her teenage years and then her years as a young woman, appalled us all and made us very sad for her. She was perfectly acceptable in her manners and conversation and could talk about day to day things. I stayed in touch with her for a while and still see her out and about with her carers, who help her live a relatively independent life in a rented flat where she has been able to have and care for two kittens, now cats and do things she wants to do. They visit most days I believe and accompany her most of the time but I have seen her when she has caught the bus and come out to the shops on her own as well.
What a sad life she has led when maybe with a little help she could have been free to do things like other people, and maybe even have found a partner to be happy with.

Such a scandal that people were just shut away and not even treated well. I am disgusted with the Queen Mother, I think there was a very selfish side to her despite all the accolades about how wonderful she was. Shame on the cousins' immediate family too, who didn't accompany their mother when visiting so couldn't continue the visits after the mother's death.

Rest in peace, all those now gone from such a dreadful life.

Lizx

Having read the newspaper reviews of last night's programme (because I couldn't watch it) I'm at a loss to know why the programme makers didn't tell the FULL story of these two sisters, rather than concentrating on their life inside the Institution and how forgotten they were.

There seem to be FAR too many unanswered questions....
Their father John died in 1930/31(?) so how come they weren't sent away until 10 years later?
Where had they been living until 1941?
Had they been deemed 'acceptable' up until then? etc etc etc


And to think that the Queen Mum was Patron of Mencap......don't get me started!!!!!!!!!!!

K

There was another, a Boy. think his name was David, There was a programme on the tele sometime ago about him. Re, the Queen Mum. she did,nt want to marry George 6th,she set her cap at his older brother who abdicated,so she settled for George, not as nice a person as has been made out, Just look at the way they treated the Nanny of their two girls.(The Queen and Margaret ) also how (Untill Pressed ) they regarded Diana. not nice. the whole lot seem to be heartless people no matter what publicity they get.**M**.

The 'science' of Eugenics has a lot to answer for!
I worked at a psychiatric hospital in Portsmouth in the early 1970's. There was a 43 year old man who had ben there for 40 years, because he had epilepsy. Even though modern drugs meant he hadn't had a fit for years, he was still there. There was also quite a few very elderly ladies who had been incarcerated for having illegitimate children!!

I found out in about 1990, that I had a great uncle who was special needs. G grandma explained his 'situation' by saying he had been dropped on his head as a baby.
He lived at home, never spoke, but could do mental arithmetic in a flash!! He had a job delivering papers as a child, and as an adult, worked as an upholsterer at the train carriage building department at Eastleigh - both jobs that could be done by a 'process'.
When his parent died, he lived with a brother and his wife, until he retired. However, when he had no job to do, he became very agitated, and was put into a home. He died in 1986 aged 84. If I'd known he was there, I would have visited him.
Talking to my gran and mum, I would say he was autistic.

Probably 'not amused', Rita.