General Chat

hmmm!

did it not say anything about the Mother in the workhouse records?.....he may have 'absconded' to find work....even to London or a big city where it would'nt be so easy to keep tabs on an 'absconder'

and now re-reading...hope I havent got it wrong.....if William was born in France in 1847 and Thomas was back in school in England 1845.....did the parents come back from France then go again before William was born.....do you think he may have been working on a ship?.....It would have cost a bit otherwise.

I love mysteries too, but not in MY tree!!!!

Abraham Allen (and there is at least one other in derbyshire.) Baptised Belper 3 April 1808, parents Thomas Allen and Lucy (Walters). married Ellen (also known as Helen) Nightingale at Duffield Parish church 23 March 1828.

Went to work in Strutts mill September 1818 after attending Strutts Mill School from 18 May 1818 until September 1818.

they had 6 children Alfred the oldest in Nov 1828 and William the youngest in 1847. (the youngest two, Seth 1844 and William 1847 born in France, no birth/baptism confirmation for these two).

In the 1851 Alfred aged 22 (1829) is lodging with a Jediah Wood, a miner, he is a coal miner unmarried. Thomas aged 14(1837) is living with his Aunt Lydia (nee Nightingale) and Uncle Henry Kerry, who in turn are living with Henry's Father in Belper. Thomas is a cotton factory hand (probably strutts). Seth aged 8 (1844) is in the workhouse at Belper with his sister Martha aged 17(1834) a general servant, and William aged 4 (1847). There is no trace anywhere of either Abraham or Ellen (Helen)

In 1842 the Strutts school register shows Thomas Allen aged 6 leaving to go to France. In 1845 he is readmitted to strutts school noted as 'from France'.

I have been searching for him for about 5 years. I have written to the Practical Family History Magazine , they said because in the Union Workhouse records (I have a copy) he is noted as absconded that is a criminal offence so if he was caught he would probably go to prison because of leaving his family chargeable to the parish. He is unlikely to have returned to england then is he?

Overseas consulate's records don't start until 1849 so there is no way to obtain Seth's records. On Seth's marriage cert he gives his father as Abraham Allen labourer.

a lot of people have had a hand in this search, my cousin employed somebody which is where we got the school and workhouse records from, then I had a volunteer in Belper Record Office searching and she came up with a bit more. What I can't find is why he absconded, hat did he do wrong, where in France did he go and why France? and how?

there you are ----- the mystery (or several) any ideas?

Ann
Glos

You can borrow some of mine Karen as long as you don't give them back......

I think we should all help Ann find her GGrandfather...any offers and any ideas?

jot them down here!

whoops...just remembered it is a mass murderer thread ....oh well...we can always get back to that, he's not going anywhere lol

Not sure for that far back Ann...sounds interesting though.....who were they with when they came back...were they old enough to be on their own?....maybe the parents died at sea?....how long have you been searching?.....have you looked at other peeps trees on Ancestry? what was his occupation at childrens marriages?...was Father deceased at any of them? Is it an unusual name that may have been mistranscribed?...have you asked on tips etc etc.etc....oooo I love a mystery!

~~~~to TW~~~~

Hi Susan, he absconded and the family went to France in about 1842, my Gt Grandfather was born in France in 1844, by 1851 the children are all back in Derbyshire but no parents anywhere. Haven't checked shipping lists, would they have them for the continent?

Ann
Glos

Wanders onto thread...sees content....and creeps out again....quickly!

~~~~to Kemp~~~~

Not sure I would go along with that Joan.....when at first I found out we had wealthy anscestors and were then disinherited.....twas like winning the lottery then losing the ticket lol.....

my real thoughts though are with the poverty and hopelessness of the next generation and some of the children dying in awful circumstances.....Yes I know that the vast majority of people had it tough in those days....but heartless if the family were wealthy, and no need......still won't get morbid....twas a long time ago :-)

Ann what year would that have been, have you looked for shipping lists etc?

I think we should have a sticky thread called a brick wall then we could all look for each others hard to finds.:-))))) ( mind you...I expect there is already one on tips &co

Hi Susan, No none of mine are from Gloucestershire, OH has a few though. Mine are from Staffs, Derbyshire, Somerset, Dorset, Hampshire, Kent, Surrey.

The only one who is halfway interesting really is my Gt Gt grandfather who absconded to France, but I can't find anything about why he did that, or where he went in France, after he went I have lost him completely, don't think he ever came back, or his wife who followed him.

Ann
Glos

Hi Susan,

know what you mean there was money in my family to lots of it someones had it but who i ask myself
my fathers niece told me
my mom use to say the same to Mmmm i ask myself shall i delve to find it

No i say to myself , greedy ancestors already spent it or cheated us
my saying is what you never had you never miss

I have all the wealth i need no begging letters please cant share it my children and grandchildren


Joan G

cccooooorrrr.....I hope my pms were nice ....


enough!!! lol

Morning Ann,

I can't remember now.....but were all yours actually from Glos....and didn't you have someone famous in your tree?

I am sure if we all keep digging we can find more details as time passes. The trouble with mine is that the spellings, especially as one goes further back, are prolific, as are the amount of children they had.....and a lot of them the same names too....takes soooo much concentration cross referencing......finding the mass murderer was just by chance......Hmmmm wonder if I can trace his tree back to someone else in England

Funny how no-one minds a villain in their tree as long as it was a long time ago.....wouldn't want one that was more recent....can just see the headlines...and oh, the shame lol

Better keep on the right side of you then!!!!

I just wish I could find somebody halfway interesting in my tree.

Ann
Glos

So K Caz...I've gone off him now....you can borrow him if you like :-)

Wow Susan!!


Caz xxxxxx

Oh Joan you are kidding??

Bless her, poor soul. ;-0)

Deanna X

*Come near me girl and you

WONT BE ABLE to do anything for the

rest of your life!!*

Deanna X

The only thing what i have found so far ggrandmothers sister funeral

headlines a calamity

the coffin fell into the river

Joan G

Lol Joan,

'Tis the money that has missed a few generations or so that concerns me more.

Sheesh!....where did you lot come from?.....have yer not got dinners ter cook and houses ter clean and church to go to?......Me....I am practicing......no...not with me axe....am practicing not having to do anything for the rest of my life.

*She does , she does*

*Genteel? who is she trying to kid?*

Deanna X

Personally I wouldn't want to be related to a gangster/murder etc if I could help it!!!


>>>>>>>>>>runs quicker than she ever has on a thread from the Bluebeard of Texas.......