General Chat

in our local coffee shop.

We were chatting in a group and got round to education. She asked me if I had any objection to the grammar school and when I said that I had wanted to go to it as a child because it would have suited me personally, but that I don't think I will send my son because I don't think it would suit him, she was a bit shocked.

She believes that grammar schools should be abolished and that competition should be stamped out.

My point was that as a parent my child's education is my responsiblity and I will look very carefully at all the options to get what is precisely right for him. He may not have such an academic leaning as my husband and I do, or he may turn out to be much more musical and I believe that I am responsible for taking this into account and choosing the correct form of education for him.

Anybody else making/going to make/has made this choice?

Has anybody regretted or changed their mind?

OH and I both went to grammar schools. He enjoyed it but I hated it so there was a bit of a debate when it came to choosing for our son.

We decided to take him to see all the schools available and leave it to him. He chose the biggest Comp in the area.

He's now a PhD working in genetics research at a university.

Each child is different and you have to choose (or let them choose) what is best for them.

Gwynne

hubby and I met at the local Grammar...

Our two sons have totally different abilities and skills, each very clever and talented in their own field.

I took this into account when choosing schools.. the older benefitted from the more formal structure of a Grammar, and the younger from a less formal local co-ed... although they both went to the same boarding school in between for a couple of years.

They each thrived... both have Masters in their chosen fields, and have done well. But I really feel that this is because I carefully chose schools to suit their personality as well as their academic leanings.

Love

Daff xxx

Daff and Gwynne

That is exactly my attitude but she seemed to be genuinely trying to hide her outrage and disappointment that I did not support her view to entirely abolish grammars and competition!

Poor lady, we had such a lovely chat before that!!!!

I would have loved the grammar, and I especially wanted to go to an all girls school. Never got the chance and had to put up with all the nasty, horrid smelly, hairy boys in my class!

Perhaps I would have felt a bit differently if my OH had been in my class then?

I am a great fan of Grammar school education, my wife went to one, i was never clever enough to do so.
Going back to the days when our Son had to choose which school he was going to, i was disappointed when he chose the local comprehensive.
Much like Gywnne's son, my son went on to University and finished up with a first class honours degree in Mechanical engineering, currently working in Qatar.

So shows what do i know about these things

George

I think if you remove competition for schools then you lose the impetuous to be the best you can be. I remember watching a programme on TV about this subject where kids were going for places at schools. I agree that a school that will suit one child, won't necessarily suit another.

Unfotutnately, our local council, in their questionable wisdom, are removing parental choice in our town by insisting that we have an academy that will replace three comprehensives (each with their own specialty) One a sports college, one I believe is science (or IT) and the other that seems to handle children with behavioural difficulties very well.

This will mean people are left with the choice of the academy, a Roman Catholic school, the private day school (which don't offer full scholarships that I'm aware of) or travelling to the next town for a comp.

One issue that amuses me is that they go on about how wonderful this academy will be and how it's best for the children of the town...they will only have 1200 places and currently the three schools have more than that in them and births have apparently risen. So where are the rest of the children going.

I think parental choice is vital for a child. And interschool competition is one of the best ways to encourage reaching potential.

A grammar/private school can give options that your local comp can't hope to. I've said if I had a child and the money they would go to the private school because I think they seem to have the best discipline. You don't see their pupils walking round with skirts so short their knickers are on show. My ex went to a grammar school and went to Oxford, I doubt he would have got in if he'd gone to a comp.

I did try to explain that the definition of competition that I have taught my children is

"Has your best got better?"

"Is that your personal best?"

"did you try your best?"

I refuse to discuss what other children might have got in their spelling test, maths test or whatever. Son seems to be getting the point now. He is nine.

I was among the last to take the compulsory 11 plus exam in East Anglia. I didnt' pass (only just) and went to the local secondary school, while the girls who passed went to the High School in the next town and the boys went to the Grammar school further away.

After one year the education system changed and all schools became comprehensive. Those who passed their 11 plus were sent back to their nearest school for convenience, which happened to be the secondary I was at. The difference was huge. Out went the a,b,and c class systems, in came mixed groups, larger classes etc. and the level of attention a teacher could give went right downhill. I feel this held back some pupils who, with a little extra time could have found the best in themselves.

My OH went to Grammar school, got expelled (another story) and went to the local comp, and he hated it. I knows he could have done so much better at the grammar.

Back in those days, schools were chosen for you by catchment area, parents didnt' have the choices they do nowadays.

I'm not a parent but I think anyone who wants to remove competition froms schools is absolutely nuts!!

The real world is full of competition and if a child doesn't know how to compete in any way then they are going to fail abysmally to get on in life!

D

Hear hear Pink, We cannot risk letting these kids into what is undeniably a cut-throat world without taeching them how to survive in it, and that includes competing.

Yes, we had one school in the area that served about ten villages.

In the middle of the country it wasn't unusual for the classes to be missing several people as they would be helping out with lambing, or the harvest.

Fortunately it was a good school but again if you were needing extra help it was not so easy to come by.

I think it did a good basic job and if you were in the middle you would have stayed there.

I don't think this lady was nuts Pink. But I think she must have had a bad experience at some stage as she was so passionately emphatic about it.

I agree about competition. There were limited places for uni for me and I had to make a good pitch because I wanted it so badly.

Then work wise, how is any child who has no notion of competition, going to get throught the interview process.

It really is not joined up thinking but on the other hand I do think we test children too much. A whole week is taken up by SATs at seven and then schools have the option again the next year of wasting another week.

Teachers are skilled and do monitor progress on an individual basis. I feel the figures generated by these tests are just desk fodder for that species I despise, the pen pushing, work avoiding, real life evading administrator/civil servant/publicist/politician!

Both of our daughters passed for Grammer school but neither wanted to go personal choice,,,,we gave in and sent them to a school that didnt have the best reputation on the understanding that if their grades fell we would have to rethink..........eldest leaves this yr and has done so well,,,she even took 4 of her gcse's last yr a yr early and came out with the highest grade poss....and youngest is also doing very well too.....Rachel..xx

Abigail

I completely understand what you are saying we have changed the exam structure to ensure that children get a fair deal and more attention is given to those under performing (or at least it should be that way)

I went to a Grammar School..... I hated it, but I wouldn't change it now as I have fought to achieve everything I have in my life and I am guessing there is some credit the school can take!

Apologies for generalising on the word nuts, it was a flippant comment!

I went to a grammer school and hated it, probably because I'm idle and didn't want to 'do' school, any school. The pressure to keep up was immense.

My daughter passed to go to a grammer school and it was exactly right for her she needed no coaching and got there on her natural ability.

My other 4 children didn't have that natural ability so went to the catholic school which was the progression from the junior feeder school.

It is down to individual choice and ability.

Tina x

Oh Pink! You don't need to apologise!

I understood what you meant. What I meant was she was not one of those people who have an ideal in their head of how things should be without having any idea of how any of the real world works, or who dissociate themselves from it.

She seemed to be reacting to something rather than philosophising.

I think the exam structure works to a certain extent but i don't think we need all the extra optional sats on top. They could be doing something useful in that week!

Did you really hate your school? I wanted so badly to go to one like that. I don't even know how different it would have been to my own. The discipline at ours is absolutely legendary. Don't know what it is like now but the myth of it has passed down the generations!!!

I do think our children are 'formally' tested too much and too young. There's not really any need to test a child until they're 10/11 in my mind.

When we were in junior school I remember frequent spelling and maths tests....just little 10 question things that kept us all moving forward or identified those who were struggling or not working. It worked well and didn't take up the teachers time tied up in administrative c***. Time should be spent teaching not testing at those ages and school should be fun not stressful. 7 year olds with nervous anxiety and exam related stress is just unforgivable.

Abigail, it's not just that one week either is it, they spend weeks preparing for it too.

They're discussing this issue on the ITV news right now.

A new report saying that our country sends our children to school younger, tests them younger and more and don't show as good a results.

I sometimes felt that when we were getting our little ones ready for starting school, some parents seemed to think of it as a free six hour babysitting service.

I was not looking forward to it at all, I knew I would miss him desperately!!