Genealogy Chat

I’d like some help, please, to find the “right” Florence Mary Batt after 1911. This is her birth record:

BATT, FLORENCE MARY TIDY
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 572
Father Thomas Richard Batt

Not to be confused with:

BATT, FLORENCE MARY GREY
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in ROMSEY Volume 02C Page 82
Father William Henry Batt.

I thought I’d cracked it when I found a marriage for FMB to Henry Young, but the C1921 record shows this FMB with Henry and with his mother-in-law Emily, rather than Alice Emma Batt née Tidy.

In C1901 FMB, her brother Sydney, and mother Betsy were with my grandfather Thomas William Parr. Someone (presumably a cricket enthusiast) had mis-recorded or mis-transcribed their family name as Ball rather than Batt. Alice was my grandmother’s sister.

There are two school admission records for FMB:

Name: Florence Batt
Age: 3
Birth Date: 5 November 1895
Admission Date: 7 Nov 1898
School: Plumstead Road School
Father: Thomas Batt
Notes: Plumstead Road School (0489) opened in 1879. Closed or reorganised in 192-

Name: Florence Batt
Age: 4
Birth Date: 5 Nov 1895
Admission Date: 18 Jun 1900
School: Purrett Road School
Father: Thos Batt
Notes: Purrett Road School (0734) opened in 1888. Renamed Gallions Mount School (See Separate List) in 1951

Both of which show her DoB as 5 November 1895 and her father as Thomas so I think I can be fairly sure this is the “right” FMB.

In 1911 Alice Emma Batt was a servant in the IoW. Her son Sidney was in an orphan’s home in Farningham, and who I believe to be her daughter FMB was also in an orphan’s home in Southsea. Her DoB was given as 1897. Their father, Thomas Richard Batt, died in 1902, so I wonder why they were in schools for orphans already in 1898. I suspect that the family had broken up earlier which might explain why they were with my grandparents in 1901.

The death record for the “wrong” FMB:

Name: Florence Mary Young
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 5 Nov 1892
Registration Date: Jul 1976
[Aug 1976]
[Sep 1976]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Reading and Wokingham
Inferred County: Berkshire
Volume: 19
Page: 0159

shows her DoB as 5 November 1892.

It’s quite a coincidence to have two people with exactly the same name and exactly the same DoB, but coincidence it is.

So, what happened to the “right” FMB after C1911?

Have you got the death certificate for the ‘wrong’ Florence?

Have you researched this ‘wrong’ one to prove they are different people with the same name and birth date ?

No and yes in that order!

I had hoped I'd made it clear that the "wrong" one married Henry Young, and then they were together in C1921 with his mother-in-law Emily, rather than Alice. The "wrong" one's parents being Emily and William Henry.

Here's an extract from the C1921:

Emily Batt Head Female 1852 69 Holwell, Dorset, England Domestic Work -
Florence Young Daughter Female 1892 28 Mottisfont, Hampshire, England Domestic Work -
Henry Young Son-in-law Male 1892 28 Hordle, Hampshire, England Railway Porter L S W Railway, East Leigh

You asked about the death certificate. Were you suspecting a possible mis-transcription?

And this is the family in 1939:

First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
Henry J Young 23 Sep 1892 Male Railway Guard Married 264 1
Florence H Young 05 Nov 1892 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 264 2
Cicely M Seed (Young) 24 Nov 1921 Female Re ? Waitress Single 264 3
The record for this person is officially closed.
The record for this person is officially closed.

The middle initial of Florence has been mis-transcribed, it's M in the image.

Daughter Cicely's birth record:

First name(s) Cicely M
Last name Young
Birth quarter 4
Birth year 1921
Mother's maiden name Batt <<<
District South Stoneham
County Hampshire
Country England
Volume 2C
Page 196
Record set England & Wales Births 1837-2006
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Births
Collections from Great Britain, England

I was trying to get my head around it.

I wouldthink it very unusual to have two people of the same name having the same birthdate, so, for myself, I would be ensuring I had the documents to prove any theorys.

Have you found the ‘wrong’ one on the 1939 register, as that would give a birthdate.

I’m on my iPad so switching from one site to another few is problematical.

My last post gave the 1939 record.

I agree it's highly unusual. When I found the Young marriage with the same DoB (5 November), I awarded myself the Sherlock Holmes medal ;-)
But then I looked further and found the coincidence, so I had to hand the medal back!

Sorry,passed right over the dates.

It’s not just the birth date that is unusual - there seem to be so many Florence Batts born around the same time.

Have you found what happened to Alice after 1911. If she moved away from the Isle of Wight she may have collected Florence and taken her with her.

Good thinking, I wondered whether Alice might have taken the job in the IoW to be close to Florence's school.

Here's Alice in the 1939, alone:

First name(s) Alice E
Last name(s) Batt
Birth date 18 Jun 1875 <<< should be 1871
Birth day 18
Birth month 6
Birth year 1875
Sex Female
Marital status Widowed
Occupation Unpaid Domestic Duties
Address 13 Cliffe Road, Rochester
Place Rochester M.B.
Borough / district Rochester M.B.
County Kent
Country England
E. D. letter code DIMK
Schedule 90
Schedule sub number 1
Archive reference RG101/1770A/007/41
Piece number 1770A
Item number 7
Line number 41
Special interest groups -
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain, England

Ref: RG101/1770A/007/41 Letter Code: DIMK

This is Alice's death certificate, regrettably not reported by Florence but by her son Sidney:

Registration District Chatham
1942 Deaths in the Sub-District of Rochester in the County of Kent.
234, Twentieth September 1942 in Bartholomew’s Hospital Rochester U D, Alice Emma Batt, Female, 72 years, of 13 Cliffe Road Strood Rochester U D widow of Thomas Richard Batt Chief P O ?? Stoker RN, Cerebral Haemorrhage certified by N R E Fendall M R C S, S Batt Son 53 Wykeham Street Strood Rochester, Twenty first September 1942, E A Crisp Interim Registrar

I did wonder why Florence was sent so far away. But at least Alice returned to aKent and reunited with her son.

Thinking caps back on.

The day and month of the births may be the same - the year certainly isn’t, which must be kept in mind

So, by no means as remarkable as it would have been had the years been the same

Absolutely. Which is why it's a remarkable coincidence.

Detail Source
Name: Florence Mary Batt
Gender: Female
Record Type: Christening (Baptism)
Baptism Date: 22 Dec 1895
Baptism Place: Chatham, St Pauls, Kent, England
Father:
Thomas Batt
Mother:
Alice Batt.

There are so many possibilities for what may have happened to Florence.

In the orphanage - she may have died, may have been one of those children sent overseas, may have gone back to her mother. If she had stayed in the orphanage she would have been prorated for a life in service - so could be anywhere.

She could have been about 21 when war was declared - did she join a women service, work in the factories. Did she die of Spanish Flu. Or did she just quietly marry?

So much to think about.

???

Marriages Mar 1917   (>99%)
Batt  Florence M  Mathieson  Portsmouth  2b 863   
Mathieson  George  Batt  Portsmouth  2b 863

Children (there may be more - I haven't searched exhaustively):

MATHIESON, ROBERT mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1919 D Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 1457
  
MATHIESON, GEORGE SYDNEY mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1918 M Quarter in PORTSMOUTH Volume 02B Page 757

MATHIESON, LAURENCE THOMAS mmn BATT
GRO Reference: 1922 J Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 1332


1921:
Florence Mary
Mathewson
1895 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Chatham, Kent, England <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Chatham
Medway
Kent

with Robert 1919 (born Chatham) , George 1888 (born Scotland) , and George Sydney Mathewson 1917 (born Portsmouth).



Lawrence Thomas Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lawrence Thomas Mathieson
Death Age: 58
Birth Date: 26 Apr 1922
Registration Date: Jan 1981[Feb 1981] [Mar 1981] 
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 0723


George Sydney Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: George Sydney Mathieson
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1917
Registration Date: May 2001
Registration District: Medway
Inferred County: Kent
Register Number: C34A
District and Subdistrict: 5611C
Entry Number: 290


So far, I haven't found them in 1939, nor Florence's death.

George Sydney's marriage:

George S Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: George S Mathieson
Registration Date: Jan 1943[Feb 1943] [Mar 1943] 
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Spouse: Kathleen N Killpartrick
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 2261


Kathleen Norah Mathieson
 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Kathleen Norah Mathieson
Death Age: 67
Birth Date: 4 Jun 1921
Registration Date: Nov 1988
Registration District: Chatham
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 505

They had a daughter, born 1948 Chatham.

Good spot.
Keith will need to get the certificate.

If Florence’s husband was in the Navy that could account for the move to Chatham OR it was to be near family.

Edit: there is a possible death for George in 1940, Stroud (Kent) age 53

If all the above is right then Florence probably married Christopher Barrett in Chatham in 1942 and then died in Chatham in 1950. All on Freebmd.

I saw that possible second marriage and death, but the middle name is May, so it might not be the right woman.
Certs would be needed.

BARRETT, FLORENCE MAY 55
GRO Reference: 1950 M Quarter in CHATHAM Volume 05B Page 312


Florence May Barrett
Birth 1895
Death 6 Feb 1950 (aged 54–55)
Burial
Strood Cemetery
Strood, Medway Unitary Authority, Kent, England
Plot
U, 188
Memorial ID
225113567


EDIT:
Yes, that's probably the correct death, as Florence May Barrett is buried in the same plot as George Mathieson:


George Mathieson
Birth 1887
Death 5 Nov 1940 (aged 52–53)
Burial
Strood Cemetery
Strood, Medway Unitary Authority, Kent, England
Plot U, 188
Memorial ID 225120859

Thank you, Kay - yes that's definitely her baptism.

Thank you, ArgyllGran, that definitely looks like a good candidate. I've not been able to disprove it, which I could and did with the Young marriage. I'll order the certificate.

I also found the death and burial records for George the Elder and the possible second marriage, but I hadn't spotted that Florence was also buried in the same plot as George. Two certificates to be ordered!

There are also three more children from the first marriage:

MATHIESON, EVELYN MAY
GRO Reference: 1931 J Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1284

MATHIESON, GERALD NORMAN
GRO Reference: 1926 M Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1145

MATHIESON, RICHARD THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1931 J Quarter in STROOD AND HOO Volume 02A Page 1285

It looks as if George senior was in the RAMC, but not after his marriage as far as I can tell (I had hoped there might be a record of the marriage).

This might be a confusing factor in C1939:

First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
George W Burrett 23 May 1885 Male Storehouse Assistant R N A D Upnor Married 47 1
Florence M Barrett 16 Feb 1895 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 47 2

which suggests this marriage:

First name(s) George W
Last name Barrett
Marriage quarter 3
Marriage year 1915
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ George W Barrett married one of these peopleFlorence M Skinner
Spouse's last name Skinner
District Battle
District number -
County Sussex
Country England
Volume 2B
Volume as transcribed 2B
Page number 122
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
Collections from Great Britain, England

Still can't find her / them in C1939 tho'

First things first: get the certificates.

Many thanks!