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Hello, I am trying to find out what happened to this little boy. Albert Walter C A Ravenhill Snoad was born in 1880 in St George Hanover Square. London. His parents are Elizabeth J Ravenhill and Walter Edmund Albert Snoad. Elizabeth J Ravenhill also used the strange non de plume of "Bay May E J Ravenhill".

After his birth there is no further trace of Albert

Elizabeth and Walter had another child Grace Gertrude Ravenhill Snoad b 1882 and died 1898.

Any help most appreciated.

Cheers

Diane

Have you found any of the family in the 1881 - 1901?

For reference.

1891 England Census
Name: Grace Gertrude Snow [Snoad on Image]
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: London, England

Civil Parish: Leominster
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Town: Leominster
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Street address: 1 Arundel Terrace, Hereford Rd

Occupation: scholar

Registration district: Leominster
Sub-registration district: Leominster
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alfred Thos Ravenhill 24 -
Elizabeth Ravenhill 63 - mother of head; widow; dressmaker; Leominster
Grace Gertrude Snow 9 -

Also for reference:

Marriages Dec 1879
FIELDS Philip St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 738
...>>>Ravenhill Bay May E J St. Geo. Han. Sq. 1a 738
Snoad Walter Edmond A St George Hanover Square 1a 738
...>>>Snoad Walter Edmund A St. Geo. Han. Sq. 1a 738
Staines Harriet St George Hanover Square 1a 738



Births Sep 1880
Snoad Albert Walter C A R St. Geo. H. Sq. 1a 435



Registered in Somerset for heavens sake!
Births Mar 1882
SNOAD Grace Gertrude R Sherborne 5a 354

Deaths Jun 1898
Snoad Grace Gertrude R 16 Pershore 6c 204


Deaths Jun 1893
Snoad Walter Edmund 41 Marylebone 1a 367

Have you got Walter snr on 1891? We need some feedback please.

Ozi.

Do you think this may be Walter snr?

Births Sep 1852
Snoad Edmund Walter Chelsea 1a 127

Probably.

1861 England Census
Name: Walter Snoad
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Frances J
Mother's Name: Harriott
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address: 50 Baalzephon St

Occupation: scholar

Registration district: Bermondsey
Sub-registration district: Leather Market
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 232
Household Members: Name Age
Frances J Snoad 38 - journeyman baker; Canterbury
Harriott Snoad 39 - Dairy keeper; London
William Snoad 15
Francis Snoad 12
Walter Snoad 8
Minnie Snoad 5
Alfred Snoad 1
Caroline Hiscock 35 - visitor
George Brown 21 - boarder
George East 26 - boarder

Hello Everyone

Thank you for all your replies, help and information. I live in New Zealand so please excuse the 12 hour plus time period it may take me to post a reply.

Elizabeth Snoad nee Ravenhill is my Gt Gt Aunt and by all accounts the wild child of the family.

After the record of his birth, I can find no trace of baby Albert. In 1881 Elizabeth and Walter are living in Shropshire but Albert is not with them. I cannot find either Elizabeth or Walter after the 1881 census.

When their second child Grace died of TB another of Elizabeth's brothers in law was the informant on her death certificate. I think by this time Grace's father was well out of her life as you will see later in the story. But where was her mother?

Walter died in Middlesex in 1893. I do not know when Elizabeth died but my elderly Aunt has a vague recollection of an "Aunty May". So Elizabeth may have been alive in the early 1930's.

The reason for my interest in this family is that I am working with another member whose Gt Gt Gran had a relationship with Walter after he left Elizabeth, or maybe did not leave her! She does not know her Gran's name as she used several surnames. We were hoping that if we could find out what became of Albert it would give us a lead.

Thank you all once again for your help and a very Merry Christmas to you all.

Cheers

Diane

Is this Walter Sr in 1891?


Name: Walter Snow
[Walter Snoad]
[Walter Mathews]
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 86

Ethel Snow 6/12
Fanny Snow 29
Walter Snow 39
William Snow 9


The corrections have been made by an Ancestry subscriber who says:


"I have his death certificate giving place of residence as this address. Also birth certificates of his illegitimate children.
Walter was illegitimate. I have a copy of his birth certificate."


Kinda sounds like a similar tale. ;)

Might Fanny be the gran in question?


There is also a note to the son, William:

Name: William Snow
[William Mathews]
[William Snoad]
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Walter
Mother's Name: Fanny
Where born: Leicestershire, England


"William was my Great Grandfather. His surname was changed to Matthews by 1901. Birth registration cannot be found, suspected to be illegitimate."


Is there any chance that he could be Albert??

This could be a Walter + Fanny marriage:


Marriages Dec 1890
Appleton Jesse Faversham 2a 1588
Hopkins Fanny Faversham 2a 1588
Snoad Walter Faversham 2a 1588
Tumber Annie Elizabeth Faversham 2a 1588


That would make son William a child from before that marriage. It would presumably also make the marriage bigamous, if it's the same Walter Snoad -- unless Bay May Elizabeth had died before then.

No other Walter Snoad birth was registered anytime around 1852.

What names were Walter and Elizabeth living under in Shropshire in 1881? Danged if I can find them.

If Walter Snoad married Fanny Hopkins in 1890, these could be the births of the two children in the 1891 household:


Name: Ethel Hopkins
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Ashby de la Zouch
County: Derbyshire, Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 93

Name: William Hopkins
Year of Registration: 1880
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Ashby de la Zouch
County: Derbyshire, Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 92


This would suggest that Bay May Elizabeth J Ravenhill Snoad died shortly before 1890, maybe.

Do we know her date of birth? Was this her?

Name: Elizabeth Jane Ravenhill
Year of Registration: 1857
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Leominster
County: Herefordshire, Hereford and Worcester
Volume: 6a
Page: 471


An interesting marriage:


Name: May Snoad
Year of Registration: 1892
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Thomas
County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 76

to Henry Samuel Sherwood or Mark Hamilton.


There was no May Snoad born at any reasonable time to be that bride, in the birth index or the censuses. (A May Snoad born later in Faversham married later in Faversham.) There is also no Snoad marriage to a May anytime, that would have meant that the May Snoad in this marriage was a widowed Snoad by marriage.

Re the 1891 Snoad children, the note at Ancestry seems to suggest they were born Mathews:


Surname: Mathews
Correction Type: Transcription Error
Explanation: Ethel was illegitimate. I have a copy of her birth certificate.


Don't see matching births in Leicestershire though.

For that May Snoad marriage, it looks like the Mark Hamilton in the list married Harriet, and she was widowed by 1901. That leaves Sherwood, and I'm having no luck finding him in 1901.

Looks like this must be his birth:

Name: Henry Samuel Sherwood
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Shoreditch
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 2
Page: 411

He died in 1895:

Name: Henry Samuel Sherwood
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 50
District: Leeds (1837-1929)
County: Yorkshire - West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 378


and his wife remarried:


Name: May Snoad Sherwood
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 613

to John Henry Morrish or John Bowen Richards.


This tale is covering a lot of ground, but it seems to follow logically. Do any of the names sound remotely familiar??


Here is the birth of a John Bowen Richards who might be a tad young for our May:

Name: John Bowen Richards
Year of Registration: 1868
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Ludlow
County: Herefordshire, Shropshire
Volume: 6a
Page: 551

-- on edit -- aargh, that one died at birth. Do you suppose people engaged in identity theft back then??

No, here are two younger ones, one of which probably married Eyre:

John Bowen Richards 1883 Apr-May-Jun Liverpool (1837-1934) Lancashire
John Bowen Richards 1886 Jul-Aug-Sep West Derby Lancashire


John Henry Morrish is too common a name to guess at.

Eleanor Louisa Eyre might be a better match for Richards:

Name: Eleanor Louisa Eyre
Year of Registration: 1874
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Cardiff (1837-1974)
County: Glamorgan, Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 301


No death for that May springs to view.

Wow, thanks so much Kathryn!

I will get Sue (with the Gt Gt Gran in question) to read through this thread. She did mention her Gt x 2 Gran used the names Annie and Fanny and surnames Matthews and Kemp.

The 9 year William Snoad/Matthews is Sue's Gt Grandfather. So, no, that William is not Albert.

The 1881 census has been mis transcribed and the terrible two are listed as Walter and Mary Snook.

You have found the correct birth record for Elizabeth J Ravenhill and I am interested in the possibility of another marriage for her.

I have a photo of the three Ravenhill sisters taken around 1935 which my Aunt named one of them Aunty May so I think she was still alive then.

Just at this moment I have to confess to a few too may Christmas Eve champagnes so I will have a closer look when I can think straight.

Thank you once again for your help and Merry Christmas!

Cheers
Diane

This is such an interesting tale. Please keep us up-to-date.

Ozi.

Isn't it? I meant to do the Coles-Notes version, as much for myself as anything. The theory goes:


Elizabeth Jane Ravenhill, as Bay May E J Ravenhill
married
Walter Edmond A Snoad
in 1879 in St Geo Hanover Sq


Walter Snoad
married?
Fanny Hopkins?
in 1890 in Faversham

That marriage could be a red herring (but who would that Walter Snoad be?) -- because an Ancestry user has annotated the 1891 census record for Walter Snoad and Fanny Unknown to indicate that their children became Matthews (born "illegitimate" -- but as what name?) But ... the children in question were born well before that Snoad-Hopkins marriage; was Fanny a Mathews by birth and a Hopkins by marriage? Vice versa? Not so's I can find ...


Meanwhile:

Elizabeth J Ravenhill, as May Snoad
married
Henry Samuel Sherwood
in 1892 in Devon

Mr. Sherwood died in 1895.

Elizabeth J Ravenhill, as May Snoad Sherwood
married
John Henry Morrish (or John Bowen Richards)
in 1901 in Cardiff


The tale so far, as I understand it, and counting only the spousal/parental figures. ;)

Hello to Everyone who has helped me so far.

The saga continues and the plot thickens:

I now have the birth certificate for Albert Walter Cecil Alfred Ravenhill Snoad (poor kid) born on 8 September 1880.

Parents are Walter Edmund Albert Snoad and Bay May Ethel Jessial (or Jerrial) Snoad formerly Ravenhill.

Alfred's birth was registered on 25 September 1880 by his mother. 17 days after he was born.

I cannot find a death record for Albert so I thought he may have been adopted soon after his birth.

Does anyone know where or if 19th century adoption records can be found. Also how long after a birth does the child need to be registered. 17 days seems excessive.

By the 1881 census the couple were living in Shropshire but there is no trace of their 6 month old baby.

Any help appreciated.

It's late down under and I will check back in the morning, so please don't be cross if I do not answer any questions straight away.

Cheers

Diane

Congratulations on the birth cert.

Legal adoptions weren't registered until 1927 so you may not have much luck there.

You have 42 days to register a birth in the UK at the moment. I don't see it being much different in 1880.

Ozi.

Is this your Albert by any chance?

Marriages Sep 1911
Newman Alice F Faversham 2a 2173
Packman Kate S Faversham 2a 2173
Snoad Albert Faversham 2a 2173
Uden Ernest G Faversham 2a 2173