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Thanks for the info on twelve and a half. I did not think of the superstition bit. Have never seen an address like that before in the census. Thank you very much for your help.Irene

Sorry to confuse. 3 birth certs for John Driscoll births Stepney area and none have the mother as Mary Ford or Mary Driscoll previously Ford. They are the births of John Driscoll from FREEBMD. Irene

By the way, that funny address business - they used to put 'and a half' in the address rather than adding the letter a on as we would now. Kate.

Sorry, Irene, but have you checked births for both surnames, Driscoll and Ford? I thought from your initial message at the top of the thread that you had tried 3 birth certs for John FORD and Mary wasn't the mother, but now you say you have tried 3 birth certs for John DRISCOLL? I am confused! Kate.

Thank you all so very very much for your help. All three birth certificates for John Driscoll Stepney area around 1853/1854 have been purchased and Mary is not his mother so wrong John I am afraid and not the John we are looking for. Even if I knew his father's name it may help. I have looked on the 1851 genealogist site and have come up with a John( thought he may have been named John after his father). There is a John Driscoll 19 living at 4 Black Ball Court in the 1851 census(clutching at straws) but I cannot trace him through the census because I am not on Ancestry. Irene

'12and a half (yes funny address)Little Pearl St. Christ Church, Tower Hamlets' The funny address is probably superstition about the number 13. It is probably the house between numbers 12 and 14

Look what I just found... Marriages Dec 1856 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Collins Catherine Stepney 1c 1099 Driscoll Denis Stepney 1c 1099 Driscoll Dennis Stepney 1c 1099 Keller William Stepney 1c 1099 Ross Kate Stepney 1c 1099 I'll go off to confirm :) Nope, he married Catherine :(

There are two John Driscoll births in Stepney in 1853 listed on FreeBMD (and there could be more not transcribed yet?) Births Sep 1853 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Driscoll John Stepney 1c 514 Driscoll John Stepney 1c 4_3 Kate.

Unfortunately a few Dennis Driscol/Driscoll deaths between 1853 and 1861 in/around the right area and without an age, impossible to guess if one might be the father of John James

On the 1861 John is shown as Patrick's son, not Mary's, and his place of birth just given as Middlesex. And in 1871 as Patrick's grandson with his birth place as Middlesex Ratcliff. Ratcliff being the area of Stepney where they are living. (I know this doesn't help to solve the mystery, it is just to confirm what the census entries say.) Anyway, if John's birth surname was Ford and he was Mary's son and born about 1853 to 1854, then Mary's marriage to Mr. Driscoll should be after John's birth. But if his relationship to head of household was given wrongly as son in 1861, perhaps his surname was also given wrongly? So he could have been born Driscoll after Mary's marriage. Again, not really much help. Do you have a marriage certificate for John, and if so, does it give his father's name? (And what surname did he use when he got married, Ford or Driscoll?) Kate.

Thank you for the Lou. I will check that out. Many thanks Irene

Irene There's a baptism on IGI for John James Driscol, St Dunstans Stepney 20 Nov 1853, parents Dennis and Mary Ann. Lou

Thank you very much. I think John is mistranscribed in the census and should have been Driscoll son of Mary and not son of Catherine his grandmother. Irene

Just to throw a spanner in the works, could she have invented the 'widow Driscoll' part to appear more respectable to the enumerator as she obviously had a son out of wedlock? Although why call the child Ford then............. I presume John Ford's relationship is given as Grandson. Do you know he is Mary's son? Could he be the son of a different child and just there for census night as well? No...cos he's Driscoll in 1871. Lou *crawls away to have a caffeine injection*

Oh Pants!

No match on that one either.

Hi, I have found a John Driscoll marriage, SEPTEMBER QUARTER STEPNEY 1C 953. On Ancestry and Free BMD there is only one bride showing and several grooms, so took a look on 1837 online and put in the details. Unfortunatly I only had one credit left and the MARY FORD's carried on to 2 pages. I have done the first page and there is no match perhaps someone else would check the 2nd page for you. Best of luck Justine THIS IS THE ENTRY - 3 grooms and 1 bride *Record Driscoll, John 1854 September Marriages Stepney Greater London London Middlesex O'Neil, William 1854 September Marriages Whitechapel London Middlesex Ramstead, James 1854 September Marriages Stepney Greater London London Middlesex Whelan, Jane 1854 September Marriages Stepney Greater London London Middlesex

The only way you're going to find out which one she is, is to cross-reference her name with any Driscolls and see if there's a match of district and page. There is a Mary Ann Ford marrying in Stepney in 1853, so I'd start with that one. You might be able to check the images on FreeBMD. Ok, well I checked that one for you, and there's no match there.

I think she must have married in England she is single in the 1851 census. Thanks Irene

1. She might've married in Ireland. 2. There are incomplete transcriptions for that period, so she and/or husband may not be on FreeBMD