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Hi Zoe how about this marriage 1861 September reg district Tendring Essex, Charles Rudland - Jane Whitten i checked free bmd pproper index and it was put down a Whitten. 1871 Census Stones Green, Great Oakley Essex parish All Saints. Head Charles Rudland age 31 b Great Oakley Essex Ag Labourer. Wife Jane age 30 b Hitchan Suffolk Son Henry age 9 b Semer Suffolk Son John age 8 b Great Oakley Dau Harriet age 6 b Great Oakley Dau Sarah age 3 b Great Oakley Son George age 1 b Great Oakley It could be possible that Jane had Charles Henry before her marriage to Charles in September 1861, as mum and son are both born in Suffolk, or she just went home to have her first baby. I think he carnt be Charles son otherwise he wouldnt use the surname Whiting, but if he fell out with his fater maybe this is his reason to use his mothers surname. On his marriage cert what he has done is not put the name of his father but put both surnames of his parents Rudland/ Whiting. With his name being Charles and Charles being his possible father it makes sense. Email me [email protected] for the 1881 & 1871 images. Regards Colette off to school in the rain haaaaaaaaaa

I cant find the George Rudland (he says is his brother in 1891) in 1901 of that age and place but George Rudland maybe the George on the Zealous as he comes from harwich too. grabbing at straws aint I hehe.

I have to check with my grandma as this is her grandad(but she is unwell at the moment) I have him in 1885 getting married in Great Grimsby Lincolnshire and he was 24(fisherman) then and 6 yrs later in 1891 he states he is 29 and a fisherman. Sarah Ann was adopted but her adopted mum was called Rebecca. Could you possible send me the image for 1881 would be so grateful thanks for your time we will solve this Zoe

Hi Zoe been racking my brains over this and i think i have found him in 1881. On board a ship called the ZEALOUS in Grt Grimsby Henery Witing aged 21 Fisherman b Stones Green Essex (by Wix & Great Oakley and not too far from Harwich. RG11 3276 180 PAGE 8 So this makes his birth year 1860-61 which adds up to his marriage age 24 in 1885. So in 1891 he should be 30-31 and in 1901 40-41, i have seen lots af ages out on various census's. What year do you last hear of him ie marriage certs of children etc, if we roughly know when he died we can search 1837 online, and if we find his death we will get an age to confirm his birth year. Take Care Colette

I wouldn't be so sure that Charles was too young to be away fishing in 1871! They started work pretty young in those days. Kate.

Theres not one Rudling as a first name on Free BMD this makes you think he has made the name up. Or could his mother have had him without being married and then married a Rudling or a surname similar Rodling Radling, and went on the have George. The clue could be in the name of his daughter Rosey Hanah maybe his mother was a Rose or a Hannah. What was Sarahs mother called. Wheres George in 1901 ?? wheres Charles in 1871 he wouldnt be old enough to be away fishing he has to be somewhere. Colette

thanks Helen

Don't know if this helps, but I looked on the IGI for baptisms in Ipswich and St Matthews list of baptisms finishes with surnames beginning with S so I can't check Whiting or variants. There are a couple of Rudlands baptised there, but tpo early to help: 66. JOHN RUDLAND - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 25 MAY 1775 Saint Matthew, Ipswich, Suffolk, England 67. WILLIAM RUDLAND - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 31 JAN 1802 Saint Matthew, Ipswich, Suffolk, England

It's also possible that Charles was born with a different surname and it was changed before his marriage. My husband has a Charles Carter in his family, who couldn't get a copy of his OWN birth cert when he applied for it in 1936. Charles Carter is a common enough name and he gave 3 different places of birth - all in London - on 3 different censuses. Fiona on these boards tracked him down by tracing the parents and siblings on 1861 census - as McCarthy, not Carter! Then I got the right birth cert for Charles, registered as Charles McCarthy. But his father, called James McCarthy in 1851/61 and James Carter 1881/91/1901 is on the birth cert as Dennis McCarthy. Still haven't got to the bottom of that one! nell

Zoe Nothing particularly strange about names being spelt differently. In those days, people weren't having to fill in forms every week like we do now! They didn't have cheque books unless they were really rich and probably only signed their name on greeting cards and when they got married! I also have relatives who have different birthplaces and dates on the census. At this stage its impossible to say whether it was a deliberate attempt to deceive (though I can't think why) or an error on the part of the householder or enumerator. nell

All I can say is bring on the 1911 census lets see what he puts in that. On his marriage cert he spells his name WHITEING but all the children are registered as WHITING as are the family on the census' STRANGE but thats my family for you haha Zoe

Hi there dont know if charles henry whiteing is his name as none were born in the right timescale and as for his fathers name Rudling Whiteing(no hits there) the suffolk word ends in wich or wick and has about 3 letters before it. in 1901 he knocked 6 years off his age so if hes telling the truth there he was 17 when he got married. What a baffler eh? maybe one day I will be able to work it out. Thanks guys Zoe

hi Zoe, fascinating conundrum! If Chas Hy ran away and didn't want to be found why would he continue to use his full name? doesn't make sense as a reason to drop place of birth and change age. There are a number of George Rudlands born, christened and married in Groton, Suffolk. Could yr difficult to read Suffolk place be Groton or something like?

3 thoughts: The two birth places he gives in 1891 (Harwich) and 1901 (looks like Ipswich to me), though in different counties are very close to one another - Harwich is on the Essex side of the mouth of the Stour and Orwell estuaries, Ipswich at the head of the Orwell estuary. Whiting is a fairly common name in the area. Harwich and Ipswich are both ports and at that time would have had fishing boats. So perhaps he wasn't being that untruthful.

I know I tried to find Rudling Whiteing/Whiting but nothing George Rudland seems to be unknown as well. I dont think they were brothers I think Charles may have run away from home when younger and to not get found did not say his true age or birthplace (there is a story that someone ran away to sea when they were 11 and Charles was a fisherman so he may be the one who ran away). Zoe

Yes Sarah Ann is the correct age and the children are correct even Rosey Hannah who was 4 is now Rose age 14 and my grtgrt grandad Robert Henry Whiting is also there. He just changed his age and birth place for some reason. I cannot find him in 1881 Sarah Ann I have found but she is not married to him until 1885. Zoe

Can't find any reference to Rudling Whiting or George Rudland on Ancestry civil reg.

I thought that Rudland and Rudling very similar but cant work out where in Suffolk it is where it states as his b/p in 1901 census. This man did not want to be found as not in 1881 census or 1871 so plod on I will. thanks Zoe

Let me see if I can make sense of this 1885 marriage cert Charles Henry Whiteing Age 24 Father Rudling Whiteing (Labourer). Spouse: Sarah Ann Adams 1891 Living in Grimsby Chas Hy Whiting age 29 b Essex Harwich Fisherman Sarah Ann Whiting age 24, Rosey Hannah Whiting age 4 George Rudland age 26 Fisherman states its his brother!?! 1901 Charles Henry Whiting age 33 Grocer b Suffolk dont know what the other word is. living with Sarah Ann and kids. I cant figure out where Charles is from as I cant find a Rudling Whiteing/Whiting either. The Charles in 1891 looks like the same one as the marriage cert. The 1901 is not the right age - are the children the right names and ages to be the same as 1891, is Sarah Ann the same age and birthplace? Have you looked 1881? nell