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Trying to find greta grandparents before their sons birth in 1916, His birth cert lists father Samuel Westwood and Mother Ethel May Welton/ Walton / Melton / Malton - not clear at all, but I think it is Welton. I now want to find them prior to 1916, both from Sheffield, not sure when married, but know they were prior to sons birth as Ethel is down as Westwood formerly Welton?? Also can't find Samuels Death were told he died when son was a baby 2 or 3 ?? on a ship in first world war, searched CWGC but he's not there! Any help appreciated

Hi Joanne Just wondered where you have looked. Are there any other children that you know of that we could try to trace to find the Parents? Also you say that Samuel and Ethel were from sheffield, how do you know this and do you know roughtly when they were born?

There this birth as a possible but you should try and find the marriage certificate to confirm fathers name. Name: Welton, Ethel May Record Type: Births Quarter: September Year: 1892 District: Sheffield County: South Yorkshire West Riding of Yorkshire Volume: 9c Page: 637

Could this be Samuel? Births Jun 1895 Westwood Samuel Sheffield 9c 606

These seem the most likely from the birth I found, but I don't have access to see who they are living with: Samuel Westwood abt 1896 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire Samuel Westwood abt 1893 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son location Yorkshire And that fit the births foe Ethel May Walton abt 1892 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire Ethel Welton abt 1899 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter location Yorkshire

Joanne, Don't assume that they were married before the birth just because it says the mothers maiden name as if she was married. They didn't have to show a marriage certificate and she could have lied!! I have a birth where it looks like the parents were married, in fact they never married! Pat

Thanks to you all Address given in 1916 when son was born is in Sheffield which ties with everything else that we know regarding Sheffield and that Samuels siblings where in Sheffield in the 1950's, also told his parents owned a shop. On birth cert for Samuel and Ethel May's son it gives Samuels occupation as First Class stoker HMS Venerable, we know he died after his sons birth, when son would be 2 or 3. HMS venerable was sold for scrap in 1920, so something must have happened to him prior to this, which ties in with son being 2 or 3 when he died, Ethel May recieved a pension from the Navy that much we do know, she later remarried and took the surname Warren. Their son was my Grandfather Alfred Edward Westwood born 17/1/1916. Just wish I knew where they were in 1901 and what happened to Samuel and when and how did he die, it would solve the family if we knew more about both of them, they are the key to opening up the tree on my fathers side.

Hi Joanne, The following may interest you. This Samuel is probably yours. In 1901 Young Samuel Westwood(1893) was living with his parents Samuel(1872) and Florence(1873) in 71 Grammar(?) Street, Nether Hallam, Sheffield He had 2 younger brothers.. William H (1894) Albert (1898) and a sister Nellie(1900) There were two brothers of Samuel senior living in the same house.. Thomas(1880) and Robert(1885) All 3 worked in the local steelworks. I hope this information is of use to you. Regards Spencer Churchill

Hi again Joanne, Your grandfathers birth was registered at Eccleshall B. and the mothers maiden is recorded (typed) as Welton. Regards Spencer

Hi Joanne Try National Archives : http://www(.)nationalarchives(.)gov(.)uk/documentsonline/search-results(.)asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=first_name%3dsamuel%7clast_name%3dwestwood&catid=15&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=* Hope this comes out in message. The National Archives ref is ADM 188/1116 Looks like your Samuel - born in Sheffield - date of birth 19 June 1892. Official RN no. 5511-114. You will need to pay £3.50 for his Navy Record. One of my gr gr grandfather's brothers was on there - he died at sea in Oct 1882. Excellent site - really worth it - even gives a physical description - swarthy, tattoo on right wrist etc. Jill

nudge for Joanne

Thanks Spencer and Jill Jill will try the national archives and see if that can tell me anything else about Samuel and how he died and who is next of kin where. Fustrating that I don't know when Samuel and Ethel married, Do know a bit about Ethel after Samuel died - she married again and became a Warren and had a daughter called Nora, rumour had it that out of Samuels death she used the money from the Navy to buy a house and a lot of land, when she died she left it all to her daughter, and not to Samuel's only son Alfred. Alfred was told not to contest it as he had been cut off from her many years before and it wouldn't benefit him - quiet sad that Alfred not only lost his father at a young age but also the house and the land from Samuel's money didn't go to his only child! Ah but maybe I'm just bias as Alfred was my grandfather. Jo

Jill Have paid for his record and then tried to download it but my windows brings it up with the wrong encoding and I can't read it, have tried to sort it out but not had any joy, Have gon onto the tips board to ask for help and see if there is a way round it

Hi Joanne That's frustrating about downloading the navy record. I had fun and games downloading mine as I thought I'd lost them and had not made a note fo the reference number but they did all turn up safe and sound. Contact National Archives direct with the problem - I'm sure they'll sort it out or send you a hard copy if need be ... Best of luck - do persevere as it's worth it - promise! Jill

first one 1901 300 Heavy gate Road Head Scissor fitter (cutter) Albert Welton abt 1875 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Albert Welton abt 1898 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Nether Hallam Yorkshire === View Record Ethel Welton abt 1899 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Harriet A Welton abt 1879 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Wife Nether Hallam Yorkshire 1891 Ethels father before he married 60 Panona Street head Sissor smith so was Albert Arthur spring Knife cutter Record Welton, Albert abt 1875 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Welton, Arthur abt 1873 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Welton, James abt 1848 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head Ecclesall Bierlow Yorkshire 1881 head Sissor manager Albert Welton abt 1875 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 10 Pear St West, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Arthur Welton abt 1873 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 10 Pear St West, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Eliza Welton abt 1850 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Wife 10 Pear St West, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record James Welton abt 1848 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head 10 Pear St West, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record John H. Welton abt 1870 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 10 Pear St West, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, England

1901 the other one 145 Douglas Road head Steel Collier Joe Freeman abt 1865 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Boarder Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record George Walton abt 1862 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record George Walton abt 1895 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Lillian Walton abt 1890 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire ===View Record May Walton abt 1892 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Sarah Ann Walton abt 1864 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire 1891 rod Hewler 16 Boyland Place before May born Record Walton, George abt 1863 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Walton, Lilian abt 1890 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Walton, Sarah abt 1865 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Walton, William H abt 1870 Manchester, Lancashire, England Boarder Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire 1881 with parents View Record Samuel Wm. Thornhill abt 1876 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Grandson 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Amos Walton abt 1825 Blackbend Common Head 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Elizabeth Walton abt 1861 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Ellen Walton abt 1866 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England ===View Record George Walton abt 1863 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record John Walton abt 1870 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England View Record Martha Walton abt 1826 Cantley Hill, Yorkshire, England Wife 1 Ct. 2 Ho. Joiner Street, Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England

first one 1901 181 Don Road Iron works Labourer Record Joseph M Gill abt 1849 Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, England Boarder Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Annie Westwood abt 1883 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Elizabeth Westwood abt 1885 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record John Westwood abt 1891 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Mary Westwood abt 1887 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Robert H Westwood abt 1890 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1852 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Head Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1896 Sheffield, ===Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record Sarah Westwood abt 1861 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Wife Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire View Record William Westwood abt 1889 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Brightside Bierlow Yorkshire can't find in 1891 1881 with parents Samuel labourer in boiler workd mothera widow Christine a soldiers wife Record George Marriott abt 1861 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Grandson 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England View Record Richard Marriott abt 1866 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Grandson 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England View Record Christina Westwood abt 1858 Edinb, Scotland Daughter in Law 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England View Record Mary Westwood abt 1823 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Head 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England View Record Mary Westwood abt 1880 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Granddaughter 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England ===View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1851 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Son 36 Don Road, Attercliffe Cum Darnall, Yorkshire, England

2nd one 1901 71 Hammer street head Milk hand Record Albert Westwood abt 1898 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Florence Westwood abt 1873 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Wife Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Nellie Westwood abt 1900 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Robert Westwood abt 1885 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Brother Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1872 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Head Nether Hallam Yorkshire ===View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1893 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record Thomas Westwood abt 1880 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Brother Nether Hallam Yorkshire View Record William H Westwood abt 1894 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son Nether Hallam Yorkshire can't find 1891 1881 with Parents head File cutter Record Ann Westwood abt 1845 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Wife 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England View Record Henry Westwood abt 1843 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Head 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England View Record Joseph Westwood abt 1878 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England ==View Record Samuel Westwood abt 1872 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England View Record Tom Westwood abt 1880 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England View Record William Westwood abt 1874 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Son 20 Owlerton, Nether Hallam, Yorkshire, England

The second one is correct for my Westwood family, In 1901 they lived at 71 Grammer Street ( not Hammer) My samuel is born 1892, his parents are Florence and Samuel, they married after his birth in 1892, the family at Owlerton is my Samuel (1892) grandparents. Have found Samuels naval record - in navy from 1910 and the last recorded date on his record is 9th June1921, no idea what happened on or after this date, we were told hre had died prior to this, or maybe on this date, but I can't find any record of this death. Very frustating at the moment Jo

Hi Joanne Re Samuel's naval record - what ship was he on when he was last mentioned in 1921? It may be possible to find out something about it that way - I have a book of RN ships on loan from a friend at the moment so I could look it up for you. Googling the ship's name sometimes throws up info as well. Jill