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Fiona, I think thats what im going to have to do.... I cant find his death but i do know he was dead before 1941 as on his daughters marraige cert he was deceased.He was still down as an insurance agent which makes me think that he died not long after he married. Sue

Hi susan, You could try the 1884 birth certificate for Francis William and give his fathers name as a cheching point. My g grandfather got married in 1910, age on certificate was 26, his death certificate age was in line with the marriage certificate. Only thing was he was born 1880!! I even have him on the 1881 census with his parents so I know he was older when he married and with a name like Shemwell I couldn't go far wrong as there aren't that many of them. Good luck. Regards Fiona.

Would you get anymore information than there is on the marraige cert if you were to visit the church were they got married and looked at the register? Not that i could go to Rugby as i live in scotland,but it was just a thought.... Sue

For eliminating purposes: This looks like the Francis V Griffin born c1886 Brentford that June found: 1891: Record Griffin, Agnes B abt 1883 Ealing, Middlesex, England Daughter Ealing Middlesex View Record Griffin, Alice M M abt 1882 Ealing, Middlesex, England Daughter Ealing Middlesex View Record Griffin, David A abt 1857 Hanwell, Middlesex, England Head Ealing Middlesex View Record Griffin, Emily A B abt 1859 Ryrser Part, Canada Wife Ealing Middlesex >>>>View Record Griffin, Francis V abt 1887 Ealing, Middlesex, England Son Ealing Middlesex View Record Griffin, Leonard C abt 1888 Ealing, Middlesex, England Son Ealing Middlesex RG12/1030 Registration district: Brentford Sub registration district: Brentford ED, institution, or vessel: 24 Folio: 157 Page: 21 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 6096140

June, I couldnt really say which one is is,the first one is the closest of the 2 i might have to take a gamble and order that birth cert. thanks Sue

If it had been the right birth date i would be saying yes thats him ,but the date of birth we are looking for Francis is 1886,...... Sorry Sue

Births Sep 1884 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Griffin Francis William Gloucester 6a 273 the only Francis William on freebmd Births Jun 1886 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Griffin Francis Vivian Brentford 3a 92 there is this one any good to you June

Sue Ive just found this in 1881: Although Francis year of birth is in correct, he is a Insurance clerk and his father is a insurance agent! maybe im clutching at straws now lol Address, Charlton Villa! View Record Alfred J. Griffin abt 1870 Bristol Son Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England >>>View Record Francis Wm. Griffin abt 1863 Bristol Son Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England View Record Kate M. Griffin abt 1862 Bristol Daughter Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England View Record Maria Griffin abt 1826 Queen Charlton, Somerset, England Wife Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England >>>View Record William Griffin abt 1823 Chipperfield, Hertfordshire, England Head Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England View Record Mary J. Humphries abt 1861 Hemington, Somerset, England Servant Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England View Record Kate Wilson abt 1866 Uxbridge, Middlesex, England Niece Charlton Villa, Bristol St James & St Paul Out, Gloucestershire, England Source information: RG11/2484 Registration district: Barton Regis Sub-registration district: Ashley ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Folio: 83 Page: 27 Can rule him out, found him in 1891 with his wife and family, told you I was clutching at straws.......ahh well!

On the Griffin marraige cert ,the witness names are of his father-in-law and somebody by the last name of Padbury. On the other cert the witness is the brides sister . Sue

Hi Susan, I don't surpose the witnesses names are any use??

The annoying thing is knowing he was born in 1886 and not finding the birth,searched either side of 1886 and ran out of credits. Have come to a grinding halt now. It is not my day... I also ordered a marraige cert for another of my ancestors which arrived today ,wanted to find out the fathers name and guess what......the fathers name has a line through it......thought it might tell me his age when he got married so i could work out for definate when he was born....and guess what....age is down as fullage,whatever that means. So am having not a very good day so far regarding my rellies Sue

Susan One of my ancestors was a carriage painter & then appeared in 1891 as a general shopkeeper - but as you say, you can't be sure you've got the right family with this info. Angela

lol Sue fraid not! Ive had a look for a birth ref for Francis in Warwickshire area but found nothing obvious, perhaps he was born elsewhere and moved to Leamington later on! Hope you manage to find more clues! Lib :))

I see.... so nothing to do with being a grocer..lol Sue

From old occupations site: Wheelwright Made or repaired wheels; wheeled carriages, etc. And: Wright: Skilled workman, especially in constructing items. Used together with the trade i.e. wheelwright

Another poss,i cant be certain for sure though. What is a Wheelwright? Sue

Susan, how about this one in 1891 – father is a wheelwright though. Griffin, Frances M abt 1890 Southam, Warwickshire, England Daughter Southam Warwickshire >>>>View Record Griffin, Frank abt 1885 Southam, Warwickshire, England Son Southam Warwickshire View Record Griffin, George W abt 1879 Southam, Warwickshire, England Son Southam Warwickshire View Record Griffin, Mary A abt 1854 Flecknoe, Warwickshire, England Wife Southam Warwickshire View Record Griffin, Samuel F abt 1881 Southam, Warwickshire, England Son Southam Warwickshire View Record Griffin, William abt 1851 Southam, Warwickshire, England Head Southam Warwickshire Angela

Could be a possability.... I just wish i could find his birth and then i could order cert to be sure. Thanks for looking for me Liberty much appreciated. The mystery goes on....... Thanks sue

I wander if this could be Francis using his middle name 'William'?? He is a Grocers errand boy! Address 37 Gordon street! 1901: >>>>William Griffin abt 1886 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Boarder Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Annie Matthews abt 1893 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Daughter Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Ellen Matthews abt 1896 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Daughter Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Emily L Matthews abt 1867 Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England Wife Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Ethel Matthews abt 1895 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Daughter Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Frank Matthews abt 1900 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Son Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Roland Matthews abt 1899 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Son Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record Victor Matthews abt 1899 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Son Leamington Priors Warwickshire View Record William Matthews abt 1869 Leamington, Warwickshire, England Head Leamington Priors Warwickshire RG13/2932 Registration district: Warwick Sub-registration district: Leamington ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Folio: 147 Page: 12 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 95

thanks Liberty, Have just looked for his birth on 1837 and cant find it....how strange Sue