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Hi Zoe Well kinda of glad that one is sorted I have the same thing happen in my tree with my grt-grt-grandad no father named its a shame as the line has to stop there, mine was born in a workhouse but sadly all records were destroyed in a fire. But I have my suspictions that it may have been a sailor from overseas as she was in a port village! And the olive skin dark hair I have seems to come from this ancestor of mine. Maybe one day I'll do that DNA test to see what makes up my genetics ~ that's going to be fun ~ Sorry for waffling on I do have a habit of that you know Zo

Hi Dorothy and Kathleen, Thanks Dorothy for that I think you may be right. And Kathleen hi again. I know it is most upsetting that they were naughty in the old days and didn't put a father on the birth cert how inconsiderate. I don't think I spelt that right sorry. Thanks again Zoe :)

Just found your thread again Zoe, seems we were right about Hannah being his mother, so she wasn't too old. Good news that Dorothy has found Stephen in an earlier census too. My grandmother was illegitimate too and it's so frustrating knowing that you can never go any further back on the paternal line. Kath. x

Hi Sarah, thanks for the info I think you are prob right. Zoe

Hi there There is a possibility that your Stephen served in the army. They regularly took butchers, bakers, farriers etc on foreign campaigns to ensure the troops were fed and the horses properly shod. Unfortunately they do not appear on census returns if in the forces as I have found to my great annoyance. Good luck in your search Sarah

Hi Dorothy, Yeah I have seen that and can't understand where Stephen went on the census until 1891 + 1901. He just seems to disapear until later on? Thanks Zoe

Hi, I have recieved the birth cert today and am totally upst now. His fathers name is not listed and his Mother is Hannah Thompson Unmarried. I can't find any reference to the Stephen Thompson who lived there though he was only there for two census years 1891 + 1901 and not before but he was born 1830ish ? Has anyone any ideas Thanks Zoe :)

Thanks to both of you see you tomorrow need to get my sleep I think. Not thinking straight no more Thanks again Zoe :)

Richard from 1891 is a Butcher if that helps Zoe

Think you are just going to have to be patient and wait for the birth certificate. Off to bed now, or I'l never get up in the morning. Good night. Kath. x

Hi kathleen, Yeah sorry semed to be a massive gap for a first child, maybe not. I just think he must have been born out of wedlock. My nan said they had a butchers shop the only one in youlgreave when she lived there in 1927 and it had been established for years or so she says. Zoe :)

Do you mean too much of an age gap between Hannah and Charles? She'd only be in her thirties when he was born. I have rellies having kids up to about 50 years old. I don't think they were both his parents - just Hannah and someone who obviously didn't marry her. Kath. x

Hi Kathleen, Thanks for your help, I just don't understand as I said in my last message there seems a massive age gap between him and parents if these were his parents. Maybe he was just aquired somehow. Zoe

Hi Zoe, No don't have 1841 census, but yeah seen that one. There seems too much of an age gap for him to be a child unless he was sprung on them. I don't know really stressing me out now. Thanks again Zoe :)

This is Hannah and Richard with their mother in the 1871 census:- Hannah Thompson abt 1801 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Head Youlgreave Derbyshire Hannah Thompson abt 1846 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Daughter Youlgreave Derbyshire Richard Thompson abt 1836 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Son Youlgreave Derbyshire Hannah seems to carry on living with her brother Richard. There is no sign of a father for Charles W. Thompson and Hannah remains unmarried. Kath. x

Presume you have this 1851no exta siblings do you have the 41 census George Rowland abt 1801 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Visitor Youlgreave Derbyshire Hannah Thompson abt 1801 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Wife Youlgreave Derbyshire Hannah Thompson abt 1846 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Daughter Youlgreave Derbyshire Richard Thompson abt 1836 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Son Youlgreave Derbyshire Willm Thompson abt 1793 Youlgreave, Derbyshire, England Head Youlgreave Derbyshire just wondering if there were anymore sibs Zoe

Zoe when you get the cert if it says Hannah then he was born out of wedlock alot of people were Zoe

I'd put money on Hannah being his mother. Kath. x

Hi Guys, I have seen the census and yes it seems he was born out of wedlock or I even looked if richard and hannah were married at some point but as you say it says unmarried. | really don't know or maybe his father died and left him with his siblings. Seems to me he was a b****** putting it polite. I have ordered the birth cert but am really impatient and cant wait till it arrives. Could be next week, damn. Zoe :)

It should have mothers name on birth cert and if she is a Thompson he was born out of wedlock Zoe