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I wonder if anyone has access to the 1861 for the Sheffield area please? I am looking for a Ellen Louisa Yates who'd have been about 13 in 1861. She was a British subject but born in Cadiz in1848. Her father was a Benjamin Yates (engineer) and her mother was ? Spanish (no name known). All I know is that in 1866 Ellen married in Sheffield so I'm hoping that 5 years earlier she was already in that area. I'm trying to do this bit of research for a friend who's frightened of computers so I offered to do a bit of digging for her but it's not proving easy! Any light on this would be appreciated. Very best wishes Sue

Unfortunately, in 1861 ... she was a servant....if this is the correct one ?? The result I found was b 1847 but doesn't say she was a BS. Caroline Alley abt 1814 Poplar, Middlesex, England Head Thornham Kent Emma Russell abt 1844 Maidstone, Kent, England Servant Thornham Kent Ellen Westbrook abt 1844 Blackwell, Middlesex, England Niece Thornham Kent Ernest Westbrook abt 1859 Poplar, Middlesex, England Nephew Thornham Kent Harold Westbrook abt 1856 Poplar, Middlesex, England Nephew Thornham Kent Louisa E Westbrook abt 1845 Blackwell, Middlesex, England Niece Thornham Kent Sophia Westbrook abt 1840 Blackwell, Middlesex, England Niece Thornham Kent >>>> Ellen L Yates abt 1847 Cranham, Essex, England Servant Thornham Kent

Susan is this her... John Ball abt 1814 Stirchley, Shropshire, England Head Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire Sarah Ball abt 1816 Dawley Green, Shropshire, England Wife Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire Mary A Davies abt 1840 Willenhall, Staffordshire, England Niece Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire Ellen Yates abt 1849 Spain Niece Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire Source information: RG9/1900 Registration district: Wellington Sub-registration district: Wombridge ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Folio: 29 Page: 29 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 253 GSU Number: 542884 Georgina.

I found this one could this be it Record John Ball abt 1814 Stirchley, Shropshire, England Head Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire View Record Sarah Ball abt 1816 Dawley Green, Shropshire, England Wife Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire View Record Mary A Davies abt 1840 Willenhall, Staffordshire, England Niece Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire View Record Ellen Yates abt 1849 Spain Niece Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire

The aunt & uncle in 1851........... John Ball abt 1814 Stirchley, Shropshire, England Head Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire View Record Sarah Ball abt 1816 Dawley, Shropshire, England Wife Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire View Record Mariann Davies abt 1838 Wolverhamton, Staffordshire, England Niece Wrockwardine Wood Shropshire Reg

That's very useful thank you! Much appreciated. If I assume the girl's mother was Spanish as my friend believes then that would mean the aunt was nee Yates. I might now be able to find Ellen's father and his siblings where the aunt was born in Dawley in Shropshire. Let's hope the Spanish lady ancestor legend is true. Right I'll go and have a dig around. Very best wishes Sue

Did you see this? JOHN BALL Male Marriages: Spouse: SARAH YATES Marriage: 03 JUL 1834 Wrockwardine, Shropshire, England Reg

That seems to prove my theory nicely thank you very much! There's something a bit odd turned up earlier today. Someone descended from Benjamin Yates contacted me. I know Ellen's father was so called from her birth cert and the aunt now seems to clinch it. This descendant has a marriage (an Esther) and two daughters for Benjamin and says he's the one from Dawley, Shropshire (like aunt Sarah) but doesn't mention Ellen or a Spanish wife. So I'm now digging around trying to find more evidence that my friend's Benjamin is the same one as that one and then work out if he had a Spanish 'wife' or how his daughter Ellen got born in Spain! I did have fun digging last night and found a distant uncle for my friend, one who got transported to Tasmania after his death sentence was reduced! That should amuse her. Best wishes Sue

According to IGI parents of Sarah Yates are Father: GEORGE YATES Mother: ELIZABETH Christening: 14 MAY 1815 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. Parents of Benjamin, again from parish records, on IGI, Christening: 27 FEB 1814 Alveley, Shropshire, England Father: WILLIAM YATES Mother: ELIZABETH

That's odd. I don't think that's the right Benjamin......unless he has a third family tucked away! Thanks anyway. I'm thinking now that in 1851 he was over in Spain (I hope!). Perhaps he went there and stayed there. Maybe he sent his daughter over to live with his sister. I'm still confused about where the other wife and family fit in. Best wishes Sue

But this confirms link between a Benjamin and Sarah and Dawley (again from IGI) SARAH YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 14 MAY 1815 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 2. JOSEPH YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 14 JAN 1827 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 3. WILLIAM YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 JAN 1823 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 4. GEORGE YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 JAN 1825 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 5. BENJAMIN YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 12 APR 1818 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England

Perhaps someone could do an 1841 census look-up (sorry I can't) for Benjamin, born 1818 in Shropshire - hopefully he might still be in Dawley!

There is this lot too which have George and Elizabeth as parents! Father: George Yates, Mother: Elizabeth Batch Number: P008591 [ 1. ANN YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 29 DEC 1793 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 2. MARYANN YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 01 JUL 1805 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 3. FRANCES YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 25 DEC 1812 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 4. RICHARD YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 09 JUL 1797 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 5. RICHARD YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 30 MAY 1803 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 6. WILLIAM YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 17 MAY 1801 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 7. THOMAS YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 26 MAY 1799 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 8. ENOCK YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 14 APR 1811 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 9. GEORGE YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Male Christening: 28 JUN 1795 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England 10. ELIZABETH YATES - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 11 SEP 1808 Dawley Magna, Shropshire, England

This is a message I had earlier today from someone on this site who says he's a Benjamin descendant. 'My Benjamin was married to Esther Unknown and had two Children, Elizabeth b.1841 and Mary Ann b.1843. His parents were George Yates b.1771 (who was baptised in Dawley Magna) and Elizabeth Unknown. Benjamin was their 12 child. I have no birth places for these children, but possibly Dawley Magna.' So you can see why I am getting confused! All the clues point to Ellen's father being the Dawley Magna Benjamin. That gives me a nice little tree back a couple of generations. BUT who's this Esther or Elizabeth and Mary Ann? I've asked this relation what other information he has, but no replies yet. Ellen's marriage cert in 1866 (she's 18) says her father was an engineer. She would have been born in 1848. I wonder if he had a second marriage or even left wife Esther for Spain. It's a pity few Spanish records are online. I've just about run out of ideas here. To make things even more muddled......my friend has a lovely old 'captain's' bottle. She says it was the sort ships' captains owned. Hers is ceramic and on it is inscribed 'E. Yates' plus a date early in 1800s, too soon to belong to Benjamin. The Dawley lot are a long way from the sea. I've no idea who E. Yates is. I was looking at various Dawley contenders last night when I found an Edward Yates who was the convict in someone's tree online. All very confusing. Best wishes Sue

There is this marriage on IGI as well GEORGE YATES Male Marriages: Spouse: ELIZABETH CHILTON Marriage: 28 JAN 1793 Eyton Upon The Weald Moors, Shropshire, England Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record BUT this looks quite a way from Dawley Magna.

There is a marriage for Benjamin Yates in Madeley district (includes Dawley) in March quarter 1840, vol 18 page 125 Annoyingly, one female is missing - Double ggrr Marriages Mar 1840 HAYNES William Madeley 18 125 POINTON Ralph Madeley 18 125 SHOTTON William Madeley 18 125 WARD Ann Madeley 18 125 WARD Elizabeth Madeley 18 125 WILLIAMS Elizabeth Madeley 18 125 Yates Benjamin Madeley 18 125

I bet that's him! Having said that.......Benjamin seems a fairly popular name for Yates. Thanks for the record. I'll add that to my collection of notes. All this help is much appreciated. It's a good job I like doing puzzles. Best wishes Sue

I just made a small breakthrough over a cup of coffee. I just did a blanket search for marriages in Madeley in the March quarter of 1840. There's an Esther TART whose index number is incomplete. She is vol 18 page 12_ I bet that's the wife of Benjamin Yates who's been mentioned before. I still have no idea if she is the mother of Ellen or whether Benjamin had a later wife but it feels like a step forward!! Best wishes Sue

I decided to buy a few credits on 1837 this evening and did a search of the 1861 census. Several Benjamin Yates popped up and I got excited when one said he was an engineer. I looked at the image and he was on a steam vessel and was aged 40. He was born in Warrington in Lancashire!!! I don't think it can be the right one.........after all the daughter was with an aunt born in Dawley and all that previous research fits BUT I was a bit worried there. It does seem a bit odd that there would be two Benjamin Yates who must be about the same age and both engineers. best wishes Sue

I just might have made a breakthrough! I was on the FamilyHistoryOnline site and spotted Name Benjamin YATES Certificate type Birth Cert Relationship Father aged – Date 07 Nov 1848 Place Sheffield County YKS This was in a section called Unrelated Certificates which seems to include some consular records. It occurred to me that this just might be a British registration of a birth abroad. This could be the the registration of Ellen Louisa who was born in Spain. Her father was Benjamin and she was born in 1848. She later married in Sheffield. This evening I gave my friend what I have so far (much of it thanks to you kind people) and she is delighted. I'll let you know what happens about that certificate........I've requested a transcript from the holders. Best wishes Sue