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Had a message from my (apparent) american rellie who seems to have got the whole thing in a mess re my Dixons - hence can any kind soul who isnt up to their eyes just check for me please:

What do you need checking Heather?

Here are my GGPx2 (married 1848) in the 1881: 1881 census: 3 Elephant Lane, Rotherhithe Edward Dixon abt 1863 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son Rotherhithe Maria Dixon abt 1827 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Wife Rotherhithe Thomas Dixon abt 1858 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son Rotherhithe William Dixon abt 1821 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Head Rotherhithe This american chap is questioning the marriage of my GGPx2 - I have the certificate for it, but he says he doesnt think they are the right people !!! (I should add his tree shows my William born 1821 Richmond - and I can assure you all my family lived in Elephant Lane Rotherhithe for over a hundred years - never the less). He tells me that my GGM was born 3 years before this Maria Dixon nee Silby and he has her and my GGFx2 in the 1891 and 1901 census. Should also add he doesnt believe my GGMx2 was Maria Silby, despite my having the marriage certificate and the birth certificate of my GGF - their son William born 1852 (My dad who died aged 91 in October actually told me how he would take wood round to his grandad - this William born 1852 in Elephant Lane!) Now I dont believe this as these people are def my line, but just to reassure me folks - can you find William and Maria after 1881 - cos I cant.

Heather has he sent you the info that he has for 1891/1901 or source codes because that's what I would ask for, now can't see William or Maria in the 1891/1901 census just going to see something else! Zoe

Ive sent him a message Zoe, saying look, I lived in Rotherhithe, my dad was 91 and the youngest of his family by 24 years and he was actually physically in contact with the William of 1852 in Elephant Lane. But he cant seem to get this through to his brain. I just wanted to treble check in case he came back with something I didnt know. Ive been looking for their deaths all morning (Gawd knows why I hadnt got their certs - but these were in my earliest work, and well, you dont do you - so much stuff coming in from everywhere at that time). Ive found a possible for William in St Olaves 1887 - but have to admit cant find a good match for Maria. The two possible deaths for Maria are in Southwark St Saviours or Greenwich. Now, its very possible if she were alive she would be with one of the huge tribe of Dixons and either of these places could easily be one of the family BUT problem is these are both after 1891.

I just looked also and found what you did death wise. No joy on Maria though Zoe

only this one 1881 Henry Dixon abt 1857 Southwark, Surrey, England Son 4 Allen St, Newington, London, England View Record James Dixon abt 1865 Southwark, Surrey, England Son 4 Allen St, Newington, London, England ===View Record Maria Dixon abt 1823 Southwark, Surrey, England Head 4 Allen St, Newington, London, England View Record John Hawes abt 1854 Southwark, Surrey, England Boarder 4 Allen St, Newington, London, England 1891 Record Henry Dixon abt 1858 Southwark, London, England Son St Saviours London ===View Record Maria Dixon abt 1824 Southwark, London, England Head St Saviours London View Record Maria Dixon abt 1858 Islington, London, England Daughter-in-law St Saviours London

I bought units on familyrellies to look for both - Williams looks a good match but Maria -------------

Do you think he may have found this one? Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County Henry Dixon abt 1858 Southwark, London, England Son St Saviours London Maria Dixon abt 1824 Southwark, London, England Head St Saviours London Maria Dixon abt 1858 Islington, London, England Daughter-in-law St Saviours London

Pete and Zoe - thats the only one I could find and SHE IS NOT my GGMX2 - she is a box maker or something. She is shown born Southwark, which is near but is NOT Rotherhithe. Neither did she have sons of these names and ages. If you lot cant find her then I shall stick to my guns and just face him out.

Heather I would stick to your guns no matter what you have the certs and they follow what info you have found have they not? I trust my instincts and just get more info to prove them wrong ie birth certs of all their children to prove I have the right maiden name ect! Is he actually disagreeing on Maria's maiden name? Zoe

Hi Heather, So was Maria married before? Does the other person have the Hains kids in his tree? 1851. Maria 1843 should be Hains also. Emma Dixon abt 1850 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Daughter Rotherhithe Surrey John Dixon abt 1849 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son Rotherhithe Surrey Marie Dixon abt 1827 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Wife Rotherhithe Surrey William Dixon abt 1822 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Head Rotherhithe Surrey George Hains abt 1845 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Son Rotherhithe Surrey Maria Harris abt 1843 Rotherhithe, Surrey, England Daughter Rotherhithe Surrey

Yes, she was married to a George Hains. Poor sod died aged 24 in Rotherhithe. I have told him that - it is shown on her marriage certificate as her name (thicko, wasnt she) BUT then her fathers name is shown as Joseph Silby and the witnesses are Joseph and Mary Silby. This is another point he has argued - But if she is Maria Silby why would she say her name was Hains (erm, because she was thick?) Ive also pointed out to him that the two eldest kids with my GGFx2 is even shown as Hains - it falls on deaf ears. I have told him my GGF Williams birth cert shows mum as Maria Dixon formerly Silby. He says my GGFx2 father is a William. On the marriage certificate he is shown as John Dixson (sic). He still insists Williams father is William!!!!! If you look at the census there is a William Dixon b 1821 in Richmond. I am sure he has latched on to that guy instead of the right William and has followed a line back in Richmond via the IGI. I cant make him see that there wouldnt be a lot of work for lightermen or dockers in leafy Richmond. He tells me he must be right - he has worked on this for 2 decades! I just hope he is related to the Richmond lot, I dont want him in my line! ANd he has lifted my info and put it on various websites including my mother's death details which really upset me.

I have just searched Elephant Lane in the 1891 census and there is a William Dixon (at least I think it is, it has been overwritten or smudged or something) R12 381 Folio 114b (Enumerators disctrict 5) 5 Elephant Lane William Dixon, aged 40, Head, General Labourer, born Rotherhithe Jane Dixon, aged 28, Wife, born Bow Albert Dixon, aged 12, Son, Scholar, born Rotherhithe Ada Dixon, aged 8, Daughter, Scholar, born Willesden Florence Dixon, aged 7, Daughter, Scholar, born Rotherhithe Charles Dixon, aged 6, Son, Scholar, born Willesden James Dixon, aged 1, Son, born Rotherhithe Emily Haines, aged 11, Niece, Nursegirl, born India Jane looks like a second wife considering the age of Albert - Charlotte

Now funny that is..has a Haines as a niece

Hi Heather, I'd ask him to e-mail you some certificates to support his findings............does he have a birth certificate for whichever of William and Maria's children he is supposed to be related to? Fiona.

Charlotte, many thanks for that - it is one of Williams son - in fact my GGF - Jane Reeves was his second wife - I have to say, I have this for them on my ft program: 1891 5 Elephant Lane A new wife, Jane Reeves. Are Ada and Charles her children from a previous marriage? Dixon, Ada 8 Willesden, London Daughter Rotherhithe London Dixon, Albert 12 Rotherhithe, London Son Rotherhithe London Dixon, Charles 6 Willesden, London Son Rotherhithe London Dixon, Florence 7 Rotherhithe, London Daughter Rotherhithe Lond Dixon, Jane 28 Bow, London Wife Rotherhithe London Dixon, Jane 1 Rotherhithe, London Daughter Rotherhithe London Dixon, William 40 Rotherhithe, London Head Rotherhithe London Makes me wonder why ancestry didnt pick up the Haines child as a member of the family!!! I would think this is very likely as they were such a close knit incestuous bunch, Haines is likely something to do with George, the son of Maria. Thanks for that. Born India, eh -father must be a soldier then? A new lead and a bit worrying ancestry didnt show her! Of course, this was my very first line of research - back in the days when I thought I didnt need certificates (?!!!) and I realise I would not have thought to have checkjed the image back then, just taken ancestry's family group as gospel. You live and learn.

but remember 1891 on ancestry is in alphabetical order thats why she appears not with them on Ancestry listing Jeanette

Yes, FC, I think I will do that - he tells me 'I have spent time in Salt Lake City verifying these facts' He then went on to tell me that Maria was really Mary Ann born in 1821 - silly sod. Ive got Maria born 1824 (ok, its still out, but much more likely) to Joseph and Mary of Upper York Street, Rotherhithe. I also have them having a child Mary Anne born 1821 in Swan Lane - these records taken from the LMA. Interesting, my nan was still living in Swan Lane in the 1950's/60's when I was a kid. How much more confirmation do you need. Also in the 1841 there is a Thomas or Joseph - Im told poor image with a wife Maria and daughter Maria living NEXT DOOR to my Dixons!!! Joseph indeed had a bro called Thomas so I would have thought very likely this is either my Maria or her cousin, which would account for the way William met her. Guys, honestly, am I missing anything?

Hi Heather, I really wouldn't worry what HIS tree has on it ! You have done YOUR tree, and have purchased certs along the way to verify your findings. I would tell him that you can't help him, and that your happy with the information you have gained, but if he can't except the facts that you have offered him, then he is on his own. I pity him, if he won't accept alternative information given to him for free ! Stick with YOUR tree Heather, you KNOW its right. Elaine ;-)