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hiya Bill, well lets have fingers crossed eh??? we shall see what info we glean from the certs, Julie

Hi Julie I believe the family above you found is the right one, and that is the Thomas we are seeking. Subject to certs confirmation, I think we have found the missing Thomas. Thanks for your interest and your valuable contributions. Regards, Bill

now this looks promising 1891 Name: Maud Hutchings Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1883 Relation: Daughter Father's name: Thomas Gender: Female Where Born: Scabrock Place, London, England Civil parish: Clerkenwell Ecclesiastical parish: St Marks County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Holborn Sub registration district: Pentonville ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members Henry Hutchings 11 Jack Hutchings 6 Margaret Hutchings 32 Maud Hutchings 8 Rose Hutchings 3 Thomas Hutchings 35 julie

i found this ref possible birth, maybe names muddled again Name: James William Hutchings Year of Registration: 1853 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Holborn County: London, Middlesex Volume: 1b Page: 413 (click to see others on page) julie

hiya Bill, OH dear, i know you said he was an elderly gent and not well, does he have anything regarding documentation?? and does he have anything else he omitted to tell you?? Julie

Judith and Julie Guess what?..... my uncle has given me some more information. Thomas Hutchings (real name William James Thomas Hutchings) was married to a Margaret Darty (Dec 1875 Shoreditch 1c 250). They had 4 children, Tom, Jack,harry and Maud. My uncle was not sure of the spelling of Darty. he said it might be Docherty or Dalherty. I am assuming the irish would pronounce Dalherty as Darty. I will get the cert. When Margaret died, he remaried a Martha Amelia Taylor (Dec 1897 Holborn 1390), who already had children, but he had a further 4 children with her, Billy, Bobby, Jim and Lily. I have not searched the census records yet, because Ancestry is down due to updates. Bill

Hi Julie The witnesses were James Redruff and Henry Sharpe. Bill

hiya bill, could you please give details of witness's ??? to marriage, it may help Julie

Have now received the marriage cert for William James Thomas Hutchings and Charlotte Ann Sharpe. Apart from the Grooms name not being Thomas, the rest of the details link up with my Gt Grandparents. They wre married on 28th February 1897 at St James in Clerkenwell. My Grandfather Thomas Hutchings was born in 1899. So this would fit. They were both 21 years old and lived in Hermes Street, just off Pntonville Road. This is a good location because when I was a child, I remember visiting my Gt Grandmother Charlotte when she lived in a street that no longer exists, but was within 800 yards of Hermes Street. William was employed as an Assistant Fruiterer, and his dad was employed as a Master Fruiterer. This links in well, because they had a stall in Chapel Street market, again with 800 yards at the Angel islington. William's father is shown as William James Thomas Hutchings, the same name. Charlottes father is shown as Henry Sharpe, a Painter. I have not been able to trace back on either of the William James Thomas Hutchings. Any suggestions would be welcome. Bill

William, understand your problem, what's the betting AFTER you receive the certificates Uncle will find the one's he bought all those years ago! Look forward to seeing what info the certs give - hopefully won't be long as the turnaround time for certs seems to be back to normal now :-)

Bill, that makes alot of sense, will await for update when cert arrives, then we can make some headway!! Take care Julie

Judith My uncle told me he did some research over 20 years ago when he visited Somerset House and searched the records. He never kept proper records of his findings, but he told me the Hutchings line starting with my Grandfather was Thomas, Thomas, James and James. The first James was married to a Susannah Stanley, and my Grandfather was married to Charlotte Sharpe.. I worked on this info and that is why I have lower and higher ends, but no middle. Julie I have now ordered the marriage cert for William and Charlotte, so will wait until it arrives before moving on. Bill

hiya bill just because hae had alot of names doesn't mean he liked or used them, he could purely preffered thomas, over william or james, have come across it alot of times, especially on census returns, i wouldnt worry about it too much, i would however order the marriage cert, if you havent already got it, then you will have proof of who bride/grooms fathers were, and hopefully an address, and witness's to help along the way. Julie

The Thomas Hutchings, born Plaistow, who Georgina found in a children's home in 1891 appears to be still single and living with an aunt in West Ham in 1901 so I don't think he was the Thomas we are seeking. How about Thomas Hutchins aged 13, born Clerkenwell, on the training ship Shaftesbury in 1891?

You appear to know that Thomas (born 1877) and Charlotte were your gt grandparents, but don't have their marriage certificate or birth certificates so how come you know that Thomas (born 1858) is Thomas' father? or that James and Susannah are your ancestors? You really need to start with what you know and work backwards rather than trying to link forwards from James and Susannah. Thomas and Charlotte's marriage certificate will give you fathers' names and occupations and age at marriage (hopefully not just 'of full age') Then you need to go for Thomas' birth certificate with the father's name and occupation as a check that you have the right one, and then search for the parents' marriage. Only then will you find out if you are related to James and Susannah.

Another twist to the problem. I have found a marriage entry in the 1897 Holborn 1st Qtr 1b 855 details that shows a Charlotte Ann Sharpe married a William James T Hutchings. The date is about right, but I cannot find any other entries for William james T Hutchings. yet the 1901 census shows Charlotte was married to a Thomas Hutchings. I have found a possible birth entry for Thmas at Islington 1st Qtr 1877 1b 224. Apart from this entry and the 1901 Census, there is no other record of Thomas, and apart from the marriage entry, no other record for William James. If I obtain both birth and marriage certs., will it help to clarify matters? Bill

Hiya William, dont worry about it, we all started somewhere, just didnt want to sound like I was telling you off, (i wasnt). I know how daunting it is being new anywhere, but I'm sure you'll find everyone on here and on tips board very helpful, long may the site reign!!!! see you around, Julie By the way! WELCOME xx

Simone I will try what you suggest. Julie & Georgina Sorry I am new to this and did not appreciate the significance of you seeing what I already know. His son was my Great Granddad, Thomas Hutchings, born 1877, who married a Charlotte Sharp. The info re: Susannah remarrying is very interesting and I will follow up on this. Regards, William

By 1881 it looks like his father has died & his mother remarried to Benjamin Reeves... Marriages Sep 1872 Hutchings Susannah Islington 1b 441 Layland Benjamin Islington 1b 441 Reeves Benjamin Islington 1b 441 WALKER Mary Ann Islington 1b 441 1881 census... Elizabeth Hutchings abt 1868 Islington, Middlesex, England Daughter Islington London George Hutchings abt 1865 Islington, Middlesex, England Son Islington London Benjamin Reeves abt 1836 Melpsham, Wiltshire, England Head Islington London James Reeves abt 1868 Islington, Middlesex, England Son Islington London Susannah Reeves abt 1832 Islington, Middlesex, England Wife Islington London Source information: RG11/225 Registration district: Islington Sub registration district: Islington West ED, institution, or vessel: 1b Folio: 25 Page: 4 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341049 This looks like James's death... Deaths Sep 1871 Hutchings James 42 Islington 1b 145 Georgina.

hiya William, i'm not shouting at you (honest), Have you tried different spellings of surname??? and if so which ones have you tried?? this would help alot thanks Julie