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thanks for all your help! i am off to bed but will continue the search tomorrow! thanks once again night all jenny:)

is victor white and alfred white the same person as on 1871 there is victor 6 and on 1881 there is alfred 16???

Timothy (jnr) is married with several small children in 1881 and living poshly in London. None of the servants look interesting. I think you need to wait for certs and then see if you can find baptisms, they often tell the truth, when a BC doesn't. OC

just a quickie.... frances who for now we are assuming is the mother and therefore the one who had affair with ?? white was born in 1875 so therefore jst going by age alone most likely is either woolmer or alfred whom are 22 and 16 respectivley in 1881.

wow thanks lyla and oc! thats brill now i can start looking! if you mange to come up with anything else.... its very much apprecited! jenny :)

Well here they are in 1871 - there is a brother Timothy so perhaps he was Jennie's dad. Name: Woolmer White Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Son Father's name: Timothy Mother's name: Emily Gender: Male Where born: Portsea, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Portsea Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Registration district: Portsea Island Sub-registration district: Landport ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 4 Household Members: Name Age Edward Blencoe 16 Hannah Briddell 22 Frederick Franklin 21 Henry Hamilton 27 Caroline Hunt 6 Hannah Hunt 44 William Hurst 19 Harriet Rinner 17 William Westbrook 20 Emily White 45 Emily White 22 Napoleon White 14 Timothy White 47 Timothy White 19 Victor White 6 Woolmer White 12 Timothy senior and Woolmer are both still in Portsea in 1891.

Doh! Lyla's quicker than me! Suggest you trace this family back on previous censuses to see if they are in durham anywhere - or whether any of your relatives was a servant in their household elsewhere than Durham. Then forwards to see what Woolmer and or Alfred J were up to....sorry, but I don't have a sub to Ancestry, perhaps someone else does? OC

Right I've done some googling and found out that the founder of Timothy Whites was Woolmer White. He is the son of the chap that OC found... Name: Woolmer R. White Age: 22 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859 Relation: Son Father's name: Timothy Mother's name: Emily C. Gender: Male Where born: Landport, Hampshire, England Civil Parish: Portsea County/Island: Hampshire Country: England Street address: 158 & 160 Commercial Rd Education: Employment status: View Image Occupation: Chemist & Oilman Registration district: Portsea Island Sub-registration district: Landport ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Emily C. Lancaster 22 Alfred J. White 16 Emily C. White 55 Emily M. White 32 Timothy White 56 Woolmer R. White 22

I think you are going to have to wait until you get Jennie's birth certificate but it seems unlikely that she and William are children of George and Ann - probably one of their daughters as someone mentioned. Perhaps it was that daughter who had the affair with Mr White?

hi adrian thanks for info where would i find companys house register?? jenny

Jennifer You can get the address of Timothy White by looking at the Company's House register. As he must have been a Director, he also had to give his home address. Hope this helps

hi lyla, yes thats the family! and at first thought yes it was supposed to be ann but then a family member told me about an aunt martha... when i questioned how she was aunt was informed that she was jennies half sister! which then led me to the fact that jennies mum would have to actually be her older 'sister' frances as she married william shanks and had martha, frances and william didnt marry until 1897.

I'm confused. Was it Ann who is supposed to have had children by Timothy White? Is this the Ferry family in 1881? Name: Ann Ferry Age: 33 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: Gor. Gender: Female Where born: Houghton, Durham, England Civil Parish: Coxhoe County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: Quarrington Hill Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Durham Sub-registration district: St Nicholas ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ann Ferry 33 Frances Ferry 6 Gor. Ferry 35 Jane Ferry 10 Sarah Ann Ferry 1 Susannah Ferry 3

oc can you give me any more details on timothy white or his sons please, it will give me something at least to go on! thanks jenny :)

sorry for my lack geographical knowledge! lol! thanks oc, yes this is possible and orangeblossom your right as well! if the 'sister' is the mother then its probably more likely that one of the sons was the father, as frances would have been 20 when she had jennie, i did forget to mention that jennie has a brother called william white ferry who is also the same as before listed as son of geoge and ann, but have been told was her true brother so this means that it wasnt a one off... if you catch my drfit! thanks once again, your all so brilliant, half my tree wouldnt be done if it were not for you guys on here! jenny!

It's likely that, unless her parents are George and Ann, that there will be no father listed on the birth cert. No help at in finding him, but at least it will confirm your suspisions about her mother. Hampshire is no where near Durham. Nearest counties are Northumberland and Yorkshire (and Cumbria at a push)

Jennie, no, nowhere near! But...he was RETIRED and I am pretty sure this is Timothy White of Timothy White and Taylors, the Chemists.He could have been living anywhere in the 1840s! Is it possible the SON of Timothy was the father of the child and his father (Timothy) set the mother up in a shop, to keep her quiet? What I mean is, there may be a muddle up with the generations. OC

hi you guys thanks! oc sorry but is the place you've found close to durham?? dont know the area very well at all! and rebekah the first jane married a william steadman, and as i said my grandmother was known as jennie. jenny

There is a Timothy White, retired Chemist and Oilman on the 1881 census, at Portsea Hants(LDS 1881). He has a servant and several grown up sons..... OC

hi orangeblossom, thanks for replying! even with birth cert its not really going to help me with mr white as like you said not uncommon! i have had a quick look through ancestry to see if i could see any census entries that looked possible but found zilch! jenny