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Thanks for the info. I think to confirm I will need the certs. What would I do without the helpful people on here.

Hi Marcelle, Marriages Mar 1859 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brooks Louisa Bristol 6a 85 Brooks Louisa Bristol 6a 85 Jones George William Bristol 6a 85 >>>Upton James Bristol 6a 85 >>>>Wardman Jane Bristol 6a 85 Regards Vera

Hi Marcelle, Just wondered if you got the marriages certificates for these two couples, it might help you. District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1851 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bateman Eliza Clifton 11 424 Hicke_y John _li_ton 11 424 Manwaring Henry Martin Clifton 11 424 Marshalsea Uriah Clifton 11 424 Mitchell Elizabeth Clifton 11 424 Powell Elizabeth Clifton 11 424 >>>>Reed Olivia Clifton 11 424 >>>>Upton James Clifton 11 424 Regards V

Just to say I am placing bets on James and Olivia... In the 1851 census James born 1836/7 (who married Jane??) is with Mum and Dad, James and Jane.....I think! but he gives his place of birth as Winterbourne. Gail

Hi Gail, Thanks...... I saw that one, I couldn't find them on the 1871.....then I looked properly and I found them !!! :-) I was just wondering if Marcelle got the marriage certificates for Jane and James and James and Olivia...if that might help him. Regards Vera

The problem I have found with my family was they were all called the same name! I have loads of James and Edward and Williams.Trying to match them up is a nightmare. Think I will have a cup of tea and get stuck into it. I would like to thankyou both very much for looking. Marcelle

Hi Vera I posted the James and Jane 1861 earlier, with father in law. Gail.

Hi Marcelle, This is the 1861 family on the 1871 census...James and Olivia. So far I cannot find the Jane and James that Gail found. 18711871 England Census about James Upton Name: James Upton Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1832 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Oliva Gender: Male Where born: Bristol Civil parish: Clifton Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Clifton Sub-registration district: Clifton ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 99 Household Members: Name Age Charlottie Pitman 10 John Pitman 5 Mary Ann Pitman 33 Eliza Upton 7 Francis Upton 15 James Upton 39 Jessie Upton 11 Oliva Upton 38 Olivia Upton 18 Rose Upton 4 Regards Vera

James and Olivia 1871 James is now born in Bristol James Upton Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1832 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Oliva Where born: Bristol Civil parish: Clifton Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Gloucestershire Charlottie Pitman 10 John Pitman 5 Mary Ann Pitman 33 Widowed Lodger. Eliza Upton 7 Francis Upton 15 James Upton 39 Haulier, Jessie Upton 11 Oliva Upton 38 Olivia Upton 18 Rose Upton 4 Everyone born Bristol. Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2542; Folio: 73; Page: 29; GSU roll: 835257. James and Jane 1871 James Upton Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1836 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jane Where born: Bristol Civil parish: St Philip and St Jacob Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity County/Island: Gloucestershire Street address: 16 Waterloo Terrace Registration district: Clifton Sub-registration district: St Philip James Upton 35 Butcher, Pork James Upton 10 Jane Upton 32 Martha Upton 11 All born Bristol Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2558; Folio: 5; Page: 2; GSU roll: 835265. Gail.

Not sure if James was a butcher but a lot of the Uptons were butchers in West Street, Bristol

I don't know which one it is, although the one married to Olivia is nearer in age. Do we know if he was a Butcher. Gail. x

Hi, I think the one Gail found is more likely...look where Jane was born !!! Regards Vera

Thankyou very much for looking.

Hi Marcelle, Obviously I cannot say for certain that that is the right one. But places of birth did vary from census to census. Regards Vera

Yet 1851 says born in a different place. Clifton is in Bristol. Is that usual for the place of birth to differ in the census

Hi Marcelle, Clifton is part of Bristol. Regards Vera

There is a James Upton married to a Jane...........and this one 1861 James Upton Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Olivia Where born: Clifton, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Clifton Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Gloucestershire Francis Upton 4 James Upton 30 Labourer Maryann Upton 6 Mo Olivia Upton 28 Olivia Upton 9 Everyone born Clifton Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1727; Folio: 55; Page: 6; GSU roll: 542858. This is the Jane one..... 1861 James Upton Age: 25 Estimated birth year: abt 1836 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Jane Where born: Winterborne, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Bristol St Philip and St Jacob Ecclesiastical parish: St Philip and St Jacob County/Island: Gloucestershire Registration district: Clifton Sub-registration district: St Philip and Jacob James Upton 25 Butcher/Pork Jane Upton 23 born Bristol Martha Upton 1 born Bristol Joseph Wardman 51 Father in Law, Chairmaker? Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1738; Folio: 70; Page: 19; GSU roll: 542860. Gail.

Hi Marcelle, 1861 1861 England Census about James Upton Name: James Upton Age: 30 Estimated birth year: abt 1831 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Olivia Gender: Male Where born: Clifton, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Clifton Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Clifton Sub-registration district: Clifton ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 226 Household Members: Name Age Francis Upton 4 James Upton 30 Maryann Upton 6 Mo Olivia Upton 28 Olivia Upton 9 Regards Vera

I am 99% sure he was born Bristol. I know Bristol came under Gloucester and it was either Bristol or Winterbourne, Glos, Thanks for looking, it is appreciated The date and age do match for 51 though...mmmm

Hi, Thought I would show you this one 1851 England Census about James Upton Name: James Upton Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1833 Relation: Servant Gender: Male Where born: Sharrington, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Ratley County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Banbury Sub-registration district: Bloxham ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 3 Household Members: Name Age Ann Berridge 50 Frances Berridge 27 Louisa Berridge 15 Samuel Berridge 56 Sarah Berridge 25 Thomas Berridge 24 William Berridge 17 Maria Townsend 15 >>>>>James Upton 18 Regards Vera