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The inscription details on the grave at Westhoughton are:

Irene Green 1971 aged 52
Elizabeth Knowles Mother of Above died 1972 aged 86
Harry Green husband of Irene
Harry Green son

In 1939, Irene Knowles' married name is shown as Green.

This is not the same headstone as mentioned by Jink20.

Burial: 9 Nov 1907 Blackrod Cemetery, Blackrod, Lancashire
Harry Knowles -
Died At: Chorley Road, Blackrod
Age: 18yrs
Occupation: Coachman
Grave Number: Division C 371 Ch. of England
Buried By: Geo. W. Coleman
Register: Burials 1887 - 1968, Page 21, Entry 416
Source: LDS Family Search

1911 Census For England & Wales
629 Chorley Road Westhoughton, Westhoughton, Lancashire, England

Henry Knowles Head Married Male 55 1856 Engine fitter Blackrod Lancashire
Elizabeth Knowles Wife Married Female 32 1879 House wife Blackrod Lancashire
Leonard Knowles Son Single Male 18 1893 Labourer pit surface Aspull Lancashire
Albert Edward Knowles Son Single Male 17 1894 Coton bleacher Aspull Lancashire
Mona Knowles Daughter - Female 6 1905 - Blackrod Lancashire

Two children born in second marriage.....one has died.

KNOWLES, BEATRICE BAILEY
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 20

KNOWLES, BEATRICE 1
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 7

Name Elizabeth Knowles
Death Date 12 Mar 1949
Death Place Lancashire, England
Probate Date 6 Apr 1949
Probate Registry London, England
OF 296 Church Road, Westhoughton, died at 702, Leigh Road, Atherton
Probate to Mona Knowles, spinster


Name Henry Knowles
Death Date 2 Aug 1940
Death Place Lancashire, England (296 Church Road, Westhoughton)
Probate Date 3 Apr 1941
Probate Registry Liverpool, England
Probate to John William Nathan Stringer, Bus Conductor and Lena Bolton Stringer wife of said Nathan Stringer


1939 Register
296 Church Street, Wingates, Westhoughton U.D., Lancashire, England
Henry Knowles 14 Jan 1856 Male Colliery Fitter (Retired) Married 30 1
Elizabeth Knowles 28 Mar 1879 Female ??? Married 30 2
Mona Salter (Knowles) 04 Mar ? Female Sewing Machinist Single 30 3
Walter Gregory 12 Sep 1878 Male Colliery Locomotive Driver (Incapacitated) (Retir) Widowed 30 4

Thanks ErikaH I am up to date with that so far. Where else could 'our' Henry be? Unless, of course, they separated as you said and Elizabeth considered him dead! :-S

Just out of curiosity.....................

Marriages Jun 1917 (>99%)

Stringer John W M Stringer Bolton 8c 749
Stringer Lena B Stringer Bolton 8c 749

1939 Register
16 Coronation Street, Wigan, Wigan C.B., Lancashire, England
John W N Stringer 19 Feb 1887 Male Motor Bus Conductor Married 214 1
Lena B Stringer 13 Aug 1889 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 214 2
John R Stringer 10 Dec 1922 Male drapers Shop Assist Single 214 3
Sarah R Stringer 18 Feb 1860 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 214 4

What would be the connection?

None that I can see from the records I’ve posted.
I just thought it odd that they’d been appointed as Executors when the second wife was still alive.

Ah.... I will keep a lookout for them as I continue my search. They may turn up somewhere else. Thank you. Cx

You say that Henry’s father was a Blacksmith………the man on the censuses was an Engineer and Machinery inspector in 1891, and Steam Engine Fitter in 1901.

1911 is posted above……..

In 1881, he was a Colliery Engineer Fitter, and an Apprentice Fitter in 1871

No indication that he was ever a Blacksmith

It seems odd that the Harry who died in 1907 did so at Chorley Road, where Henry snr was living from 1901.

Pardon me for asking, but are you 100% sure that the man who married in 1912 was actually from this Henry’s marriage to Settle?

You say you don’t have the marriage certificate, so………….????

Also, if the one who died wasn’t Mary Settle’s son, why would he be sharing her grave? He was the first one in there after her……. It would explain why he can’t be found in 1911

I had wondered the same thing.

Without the marriage cert, you don't know Elizabeth's husband's age, occupation, or father's name.

Also , without the children's birth certs, especially Kenneth's, you don't know if they were all Henry's children or not, and therefore no way of judging when Henry died or otherwise departed.

Their births would have been registered as Knowles even if Henry wasn't their father, as that was Elizabeth's legal surname.

Another anomaly - the 1912 marriage isn’t on LancsBMD

Posting for elimination only -

Ancestry SUGGESTS this death, and many tree "owners" have latched onto that, as well as the idea that Henry 1889 is the man who married in 1912.

None of them has included an image of either the marriage or death cert:

The age is a long way from that of Elizabeth Settle's child.


Deaths Sep 1954 (>99%)
KNOWLES Henry 74 Ince 10c 430

That's probably this man:

KNOWLES, HENRY mmn WORRALL
GRO Reference: 1880 M Quarter in LEIGH Volume 08C Page 250

Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
KNOWLES Henry Leigh 8c 302
WORRALL Sarah Leigh 8c 302

Following through on censuses -
Henry 1880 married Alice Fairhurst in 1900, and they were together on all later censuses , and in 1939.

Without knowing how old Henry was when he married, no hope of finding anything with any degree of certainty

Who is the PROVEN link to you - or whoever is asking for help?

Just accessed the IMAGE of the baptism of the child born 11 April 1889- father is a MACHINE INSPECTOR

How has the supposed link been made between the Knowles/Settle family, and the 1912 marriage, without sight of the cert? As far as I can see, there is no evidence to support this theory - but I may, of course, be missing something :-S :-S

I honestly can’t see how it has been decided that the the man who married in 1912 was any specific individual, in the absence of any documentary proof.

Image of the Knowles/Settle marriage cert is on FMP…….he was a Mechanic at that time as well - backs up census info

Date 11 Sept 1879

Thank you so much. I knew I could trust this team to bring me back to earth! It's certainly back to the drawing board for me and get these Henrys sorted out!! Much appreciated. <3

I'd love to know the outcome................ ;-) ;-)

I'll do my best. ??

So would I!

OK. Neither Kenneth nor his two siblings have a father named on their birth certs! I can't see the point in continuing with the Knowles tree - what would you advise? Cx