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I have today received the marriage certificate for Margaret and William (good old Canada Post)! They were married on 31 October 1908. William Chadwick, age 23, 10 Hanover Street, father William Chadwick (deceased), glassmaker. Margaret Roberts, age 20, 18 Hanover Street, father Thomas Roberts (deceased), brick setter. Looks like this is correct one.

Thank you. I've sent for the marriage certificate for Margaret and William so we can see who her father was.
It looks like the family in 1921 and 1939 is correct, especially as the one in 1939 gives Joseph Craven and Margaret Jane Craven (nee Chadwick). I have the marriage certificate for Joseph and Margaret, father of Joseph is David Craven and Margaret's father is William Chadwick. Witnesses are James Craven, B. E. Craven, Minnie Chadwick and William Chadwick. The marriage was in 1932 with ages given as 21 for Joseph and 18 for Margaret.

This is that family in 1921 and 1939.

1921 Census Of England & Wales
9, Wilcock Street, St Helens, St Helen's, Lancashire, England

Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
William Chadwick Head
Male 1883 37 St Helen's, Lancashire, England - Machine Man Plate Glass Worker
Margaret Chadwick Wife
Female 1889 32 St Helen's, Lancashire, England - -
Minnie Chadwick Daughter
Female 1911 10 St Helen's, Lancashire, England - -
Margaret Chadwick Daughter
Female 1914 7 St Helen's, Lancashire, England - -
John Chadwick Uncle
Male 1865 56 St Helen's, Lancashire, England - General Labourer



1939 Register
44 Grange Park Road, St Helens, St Helens C.B., Lancashire, England

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
William Chadwick 23 Aug 1885 Male Fitter's Labourer Glass M? Plate Married 52 1
Minnie Bartley (Harrison) 17 Apr 1911 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 52 2
Joseph Craven 17 Sep 1911 Male Press Tool & Jig Maker Married 52 3
Margaret J Craven 25 Aug 1914 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 52 4

The record for this person is officially closed.

The record for this person is officially closed.

Not sure where Margaret is.


EDIT possible death for Margaret.

First name(s) Margaret
County Lancashire
Last name Chadwick
Volume 8B
Sex Female
Page 651
Birth year 1887
Country England
Age 49
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Death quarter 3
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Death year 1936
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
District St. Helens

In 1939 William Chadwick’s birth year has changed from that shown in 1921 from 1883 to 1885, has two daughters living with him, but no record of a wife

Original has his status as ‘M’, which has been crossed-through in red and ‘W’ superimposed

The woman who married Chadwick has birth year 1889 on 1921 census,but the marriage certificate would tell you who her father was

Ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable…..trust your own PROVEN research

There is no record of a Margaret Roberts/Naylor birth in 1888, so the person who compiled the tree has entered wrong information.

An up-date.
Margaret is still proving to be elusive, until today. I have Margaret's birth certificate which states she was born on 24 September 1891. I searched the 1939 register for that birth but came up empty. I went through marriages in Prescot, on freeBMD, and concentrated only on Margaret with no middle name, then put those names into the 1939 register. Came up blank.
Today, I found a tree on Ancestry that appears to be the correct family but the birth date is wrong. This tree has her born in 1888. It gives the correct parents, Thomas Roberts and Margaret Naylor. I know we can't believe everything we see in other trees but this one definitely piqued my interest. It gave Margaret married to William Chadwick in 1908. William had a daughter, Margaret Jane Chadwick.
The interesting part is that a Margaret Jane Chadwick was married to Joseph Craven and they had a daughter, Joan Craven, who was a child bridesmaid at my Mom's wedding. Co-incidence?? - I'm not sure, that 1888 birth date worries me. I've written to the tree holder on Ancestry but haven't hear back yet.

The image of Jane's marriage cert can be seen on Ancestry.

Her address at marriage was 25 Allanson Street.

Herbert's address was 73 Ramford Street.

The witnesses were Charles and Mary Ellen Hewitt.


25 Allanson Street in 1911;

Thomas Scott
in the 1911 England Census
Name Thomas Scott
Age in 1911 36
Estimated Birth Year abt 1875
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish St Helens
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 25 Allanson St St Helens
Marital Status Married
Occupation Hawker
Registration District Number 456
Sub-registration district St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel 54
Piece 22808
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Scott 36 Head
Margaret Scott 34 Wife
Mathew Hilton Scott 12 Son
William Scott 12 Son
Thomas Scott 9 Son
Sarah Scott 1 Daughter
Sarah Jane Johnson 17 Servant


There was a Roberts family at 27 Allanson Street - but probably just a coincidence - another very common name in the area.
I don't see any obvious connection.

John Roberts
in the 1911 England Census
Name John Roberts
Age in 1911 47
Estimated Birth Year abt 1864
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Bethesda [Caernarvonshire]
Civil parish St Helens
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 27 Allanson Street Parr St Helens
Marital Status Married
Occupation Coal Miner Hewer
Registration District Number 456
Sub-registration district St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel 54
Piece 22808
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Roberts 47 Head
Elizabeth Roberts 48 Wife [ nee Owen ]
Johnny Roberts 21 Son
Henry Roberts 19 Son
William Roberts 18 Son
Ellen Roberts 15 Daughter
Arthur Roberts 12 Son
Elizabeth Roberts 10 Daughter

I wonder if it’s worth getting Jane’s marriage certificate to see where she was living in 1914, though I suspect she could be doing domestic work somewhere.

Yes, it's a coincidence - and a very common name.

Herbert's father was William:

Herbert Aaron Brown
in the 1901 England Census
Name Herbert Aaron Brown
Age 15
Estimated Birth Year abt 1886
Relation to Head Son
Gender Male
Father William Brown
Mother Jane Elizabeth Brown
Birth Place St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish Eccleston Christchurch
Town St Helen
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Prescot
Sub-registration district St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel 32
Neighbors
Piece 3524
Folio 64
Page number 5
Household schedule number 23
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
William Brown 43 Head
Jane Elizabeth Brown 43 Wife
James Parsons Brown 20 Son
Alice Hayward Brown 16 Daughter
Herbert Aaron Brown 15 Son
Annice Isabella Brown 13 Daughter
Florence Mabel Brown 10 Daughter
Joseph Farrow Evans 30 Boarder
Isabella Jane Carlisle 45 Boarder

Address: 74 Lugsmore Lane.


William died before 1911 - probably 1908..


Herbert Brown
in the 1911 England Census
Name Herbert Brown
Age in 1911 25
Estimated Birth Year abt 1886
Relation to Head Son
Gender Male
Birth Place St Helens, Lancashire, England
Civil parish St Helens
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 5 Roby St St Helens
Marital Status Single
Occupation Glass Cutter
Registration District Number 456
Sub-registration district St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel 30
Piece 22784
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Jane E Brown 52 Head
Alice Brown 26 Daughter
Herbert Brown 25 Son
Florrie Brown 20 Daughter
Annie Edwards 23 Daughter
John Edwards 24 Son-in-law

I'm not near my notes at present so doing this bit from memory.
I seem to remember Margaret's sister, Jane, married Herbert Brown in, I think 1914, and they emigrated to Canada. Members of Genes helped me with this.
It's interesting that Jink20 mentions a Brown family living at 97 Oxford Street in 1911, the same address the Roberts family lived in 1901. Off hand I can't remember the name of Herbert's father, will have to check - but can this be a coincidence?

Do you know what happened to all of her siblings?

Have you found them all up to their deaths?

1939 records actual DoB…………….

Thanks everyone for your help. My Margaret was definitely the one born in 1891 to Thomas Roberts and Margaret Naylor. Thomas was a bricklayer. Thomas' father, John Roberts, was born in Wales (Llangollen) in 1824 so there is a Welsh connection but it seems to end with him as he must've moved to St. Helens at some point as all his children were born in St. Helens.
Thomas and Margaret died before the 1911 census, Thomas in 1908 and Margaret in 1904.
Margaret definitely only had the one forename so we can eliminate those with more than one.
I'm quite happy to get her birth certificate but I'm not sure how that would help in 1939 census if she married. It's such a common name that I fear it may stay as a brick wall.

Understood, but both of those have second forenames, which one assumes they would use on any subsequent records……although it isn’t guaranteed, of course

ErikaH- Noted. I was trying to highlight that when OP comes to research Marriages Deaths etc there were more than 1 Margaret Roberts with an 1891 Birthdate registered in Prescot.........

The only one in which the OP is interested is the one born with MMN Naylor ;-) ;-) ;-)

It would be sensible for her to get the birth cert

And these two from 1891

ROBERTS, MARGARET ELLEN JONES
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 671

ROBERTS, MARGARET ANN JONES
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 718

There are further births for the name in Prescot in 1892

Oh well, back to the drawing board!

The couple who married in 1911

1921 Census Of England & Wales
33, Brudenell Grove, Leeds, Yorkshire (West Riding), England

Stephen Holt Head Male 1875 45 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Engineer Surveyor Vulcan Boiler & General Insurance Co Ltd
Margaret Holt Wife Female 1881 39 Lancashire, England Home Duties -
Margaret Kathleen Holt Daughter Female 1912 9 Leeds, Yorkshire, England - -

Actual birthplace for wife is Huyton Quarry

The marriage was not CofE, so no possibility of an image online