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Deaths of Jack and Doris (births in post above):

Deaths Jun 1925 (>99%)
Whalley Jack 0 Bury 8c 504

Deaths Jun 1921 (>99%)
Whalley Doris 0 Bury 8c 554

Other probable children of Lucy and Herbert, post-1911:



WHALLEY, HARRY mmn FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1922 D Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 721

WHALLEY, JACK mmn FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1925 M Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 714

WHALLEY, DORIS mmn FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1921 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 1037

And Nora's birth, of course, which Irene has already, and posted by GG and Malyon.
And Herbert's (1915) , posted by Malyon.

Sarah married

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1929 (>99%)
Rowen Thomas Whalley Bury 8c 924
Whalley Sarah E Rowen Bury 8c 924

and in 1939 is with husband and younger brother Frank

152 Bamford Road, Heywood, Heywood M.B., Lancashire, England

(3 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Thomas Rowen 31 Oct 1901 Male Driver Concrete Mixer Heavy Work Married 22 1
Sarah E Rowan (Rowen) 05 Mar 1903 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 22 2
Frank Whalley 13 Jun 1911 Male Builders Labourer Heavy Work Lorry Loader Single 22 3


And ArgyllGran found the 1908 William - posted earlier with wife in 1939

Possible births pre that census -

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WHALLEY, FLORRY FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1903 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 603

WHALLEY, SARAH ELLEN FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 602

WHALLEY, WILLIAM FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1906 M Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 587

WHALLEY, WILLIAM FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 594

?? - EDIT - see next post, looks to have been theirs but born post census
WHALLEY, FRANK FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 527

---------------
Possible deaths -
Name: Age at Death (in years):
WHALLEY, FLORRIE 1
GRO Reference: 1904 S Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 371

WHALLEY, WILLIAM 1
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 306

Where are the 2 children who are alive ? Sarah Ellen and William

Did James Fletcher not include them on the 1911 form having originally written in Herbert and Lucy then crossing them out.
Were they with their parents wherever they might actually have been

The 2 deaths from Lancsbmd - Heywood sub district

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1904

Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Year Sub-District Registers At Reference Add to Summary

WHALLEY Florrie 1 1904 Heywood Rochdale H/5A/76
WHALLEY William 1 1907 Heywood Rochdale H/8A/53

1911 from FMP -

No wonder not finding Herbert and Lucy via FMP last night. This is all they have as a transcript and looking at the original - Herbert and Lucy were originally written in on the form but both crossed through.

1911 Census For England & Wales
6 Birch St Heywood, Heywood, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Fletcher Head Married Male 67 1844 Slater My Own Self Lancashire Heywood
Sarah Fletcher Wife - Female 65 1846 - Lancashire Heywood

I note it had said that Lucy claimed 9 years married and that 4 children had been born to that marriage and while 2 were still living, 2 had died.

??? DOB a couple of years out:

Lucy Whalley
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Lucy Whalley
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 21 Aug 1881
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: Heywood, Lancashire, England [ 34 Miller Street ]
Occupation: Cotton Spinner
Line Number: 8
Schedule Number: 4
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: NVAW
Borough: Heywood
Registration district: 462a/2
Household Members: 1

One closed record listed with her.


At 32 Miller Street there's a William Whalley, married, 9 May 1908, and his wife Ada, 9 March 1909

Willie Whalley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Willie Whalley
Registration Date: Oct 1930[Nov 1930] [Dec 1930]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Bury
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Ada Barlow
Volume Number: 8c
Page Number: 835




The William at number 32 appears to be a son of Lucy and Herbert:

WHALLEY, WILLIAM mmn FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 594

Possible death of Herbert??

Deaths Sep 1967 (>99%)
WHALLEY HERBERT 89 BURY 10B 747

Herbert Whalley
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Herbert Whalley
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Heywood, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Heywood
Country: England
Street Address: 6 Birch Street Heywood
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Carter Pearson Carrier
Registration District Number: 462
Sub-registration District: Heywood
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Piece: 23502
Household Members:
Name Age
James Fletcher 67
Sarah Fletcher 65
Herbert Whalley 32
Lacey Ann Whalley 29 - Heywood, Lancs


Lucy A Fletcher
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Lucy A Fletcher
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: James Fletcher
Mother: Sarah Fletcher
Birth Place: Heywood, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Heywood
Ecclesiastical parish: Heywood St Luke
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 20 Manchester Street
Registration District: Bury
Sub-registration District: Heywood
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Neighbors:
Piece: 3642
Folio: 37
Page Number: 16
Household Schedule Number: 108
Household Members:
Name Age
James Fletcher 57 - slater
Sarah Fletcher 55
Lucy A Fletcher 20 - cotton card room hand


Lucy Ann Fletcher
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name: Lucy Ann Fletcher
Age: 0
Birth Date: 23 Aug 1883
Baptism Date: 3 Nov 1883
Baptism Place: Heywood, St Luke, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Heywood, St Luke
Father: James Fletcher
Mother: Sarah Fletcher


???
Lucy A Whalley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lucy A Whalley
Death Age: 72
Birth Date: abt 1882
Registration Date: Jan 1954[Feb 1954] [Mar 1954]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Heywood
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10c
Page: 474


Or maybe this death???

Lucy Whalley
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lucy Whalley
Death Age: 75
Birth Date: abt 1883
Registration Date: Jan 1958
[Feb 1958]
[Mar 1958]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Heywood
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10c
Page: 505

Marriages Jun 1902 (>99%)
Fletcher Lucy Bury 8c 841 Scan available - click to view

Whalley Herbert Bury 8c 841

children
Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Whalley Florrie Fletcher Bury 8c 1042 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1915 (>99%)
WHALLEY Herbert Fletcher Bury 8c 1077 Scan available - click to view
Births Dec 1918 (>99%)
Whalley Nora Fletcher Bury 8c 749

Yes Im thinking time to send for the certs. Nora has actually been the hardest to find out info on, as the story goes that she was sent to live with two spinster aunts in Liverpool. who were by all accounts horrible. So whenever I have asked my in-laws they just say ''we never talk about before'' whatever that means...I just want to fulfill a promise I made to my hubbys aunt to try. I find it sad when families seem to just disappear at the grandparents. I can't thank you all enough. Ive spent since this morning searching all kinds of sites without a break. so I really do appreciate all the help you have given me. For now I need my bed. Goodnight. :-D

Nora's birth is registered in Bury RD which covers Bury and Heywood amongst others

Lancs bmd site shows Nora's birth registered in Heywood
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/birthsearch.php

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1918
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference Add to Summary
WHALLEY Nora 1918 Heywood Rochdale H/23A/461

So I wonder about this marriage -

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference Add to Summary
WHALLEY Herbert FLETCHER Lucy 1902 Heywood, St Luke Rochdale CE32/3/183

Nora's Birth certificate would confirm her Father's name and maiden name of Mother

A copy of Frank and Nora's marriage certificate should name their Fathers and give their occupations

Really sorry you guys if Im being a pain. You've been a great help. The names Levi & Thomson are new and look promising. Thankyou all so much.

Not all "actual" records are online. You may have to invest in some certificates.

You might only get a transcript of an original showing the barest details as per the records on freebmd for example

Some Counties have their own bmd's online. Some below from Shropshire for the family.

http://www.shropshirebmd.info/birthsearch.php

Shropshire Birth indexes for the years: 1896
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference Add to Summary
PAINTER Clara THOMPSON 1896 Whitchurch Shrewsbury B-WCH-WCH/26/384

Shropshire Birth indexes for the years: 1887
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Year Sub-District Registers At Reference Add to Summary
HILL Percy THOMPSON 1887 Whitchurch Shrewsbury B-WCH-WCH/22/177

Greyghost Thankyou. I have the hubbys grandparents death certs, Frank & Nora's its their parents Id like to find, but struggling.

Im basically after Frank E Painters & Noras parents.
I know I have ?Fletcher but this is where Im stuck.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WHALLEY, NORA mmn FLETCHER
GRO Reference: 1918 D Quarter in BURY Volume 08C Page 749

Thanks all... malyon
I have the details of Gladys Eyre who married my hubbys grandfather Frank Edward Paynter (the correct spelling) in 1926.
Nora Whalley b1917 Bury Lancashire was his 2nd wife they married in Bolton1943. Her mothers surname was ? Fletcher.(who was from Rochdale
Frank E Painter (mis-spelled on the reg form) was born dec1901 registered 1902 in Whitchurch Shropshire.
The problem I'm having is viewing the actual records. I can only get as far as the above information. I can't even find any census records that will allow me to search. I just don't know what Im doing wrong. I thought I was finally getting somewhere with the free weekend but then found we have to subscribe to actually view. Maybe Im just being numb lol

Nora's death
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) Nora
Last name Paynter
Gender Female
Birth day 1
Birth month 10
Birth year 1918
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1988
District Bolton
Register number 288
County Lancashire
Volume 38
Page 46
Country England

Death of that Frank Edward Paynter

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) Frank Edward
Last name Paynter
Gender Male
Birth day 23
Birth month 12
Birth year 1901
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1997
District Bolton
District number 0021B
Register number B65A
Entry number 242
Date of registration mm/yy 0997
County Lancashire
Country England